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Fan Mission: Chronicles of Skulduggery 3: Sacricide (2020/07/18)

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9 minutes ago, joebarnin said:

Another option is to leave the window slightly ajar. This shows, from a distance, that it is openable. Use the "open" spawnarg (set to '1'), along with 'start_rotate' or 'start_position' (depending on whether the window is a mover_door or mover_door_sliding). Give you total control over how open the window is.

I usually use that spawnarg as well, though it means that the portal is left open which can affect performance. I think the knobs are good enough in perf-sensitive areas.


My Fan Missions:

   Series:                                                                           Standalone:

Chronicles of Skulduggery 1: Pearls and Swine                     The Night of Reluctant Benefaction

Chronicles of Skulduggery 2: A Precarious Position              Langhorne Lodge

Chronicles of Skulduggery 3: Sacricide

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, chakkman said:

At some point, without a "city hub" feel, which is well thought out (just like in Goldwell's Shadow of Northdale Act 1), it gets too chaotic, especially as you can't anticipate where the player is going first as a mission designer.

Exactly. In TPW this happened to me with the assassin. I knocked her out without knowing who she was or getting any kind of quest, so when I did I had a hard time to remember where I met her! Something similar happened here with the Clara side quest: I found the solution much earlier than the quest and I guess most players will do so, unless you fix the windows ;). Also in that regard, please make it possible to take the breads before you get the quest. Just stop the player from eating them, because here again I had to backtrack a lot after getting the quest trying to remember where I already had seen them...

Edited by wesp5
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1 hour ago, roygato said:

Quite enjoyed this one. I tend to be a fan of the really large and sprawling city missions (haven't played Painter's Wife yet, excited), but at least with a smaller one like this, you don't get that overwhelming feeling of being a rat in a maze. Especially when the layout is as well designed as this one; not a whole lot of long-distance running required, to get from place to place.

My only real gripe is the arbitrary knockout limit on the highest difficulty; I really don't like these in general, because there is typically very little sense for them to exist, as far as the narrative goes. Take the city watch mission from Thief 2 as a comparison; you were prohibited from knocking out anybody at all, but at least that was well reasoned in the context of the story. In TDM, like this mission, it's more or less the opposite. "Don't cause too much ruckus" is hardly a compelling argument, when I can book it through town with 15 guards running after me. Considering that we're presumably stuck with three difficulty settings, I would either have the mission designed completely for ghosting (story and all), or leave the "X number of knockouts" as an optional objective. Or I suppose if it's a 10-minute speed-build mission, like Springheel's "A Matter of Hours", then by all means.

I suppose the fair question to ask is, why not just pick a lower difficulty? Which I almost did, but I like to try and finish all of these on the highest one, regardless of the limitations imposed. But after having spent my allotted 4 knockouts and having quite a lot to do still, I lost all patience and resorted to the age-old strategy:

  Reveal hidden contents

xGnBOML.jpg

I love that you can make the AI beat each other up. I rarely use it, but it's just so amusing. Not pictured are the four guards who were too injured to do anything but run around scared.

Also, related to that, I think I found a bug. I actually killed three or four builders myself, but doing so didn't trigger the mission-fail condition. Killing any other human did.

Other than that, enjoyed having the side-missions return, although I had to read this topic to find two of them.

  Reveal hidden contents

The environments are too convincing, can't tell which windows are accessible and which pure scenery, lol. Not to mention they were not that obvious as far as placement goes, so well done(?) on that front. Actually come to think of it, even the window that's in one of the offices in the merc house (which you can access atop the stables), I discovered to be operable waaaay after the fact, while running around doing whatever.

I did find the challenge room (I guess the only window I did figure out, since it was slightly open, lol), and I activated all of them just for fun, but didn't really bother going for any, other than the secret objectives, which didn't actually complete for whatever reason.

Oh yeah, also what was up with the Deposit Box 2 key opening the door to the deposit room? I thankfully didn't spend a whole lot of time trying to find a key for that door, it was only after most everyone was dead that I decided to just try every damn key I had. Doesn't usually work, so I was very surprised that it did this time.

I think my final results were about 8300 loot and either 5 or 7 secrets, don't remember. I'm usually not too keen on hunting these, so just found whatever I stumbled upon.

Finally, special mention to the new textures and whatnot in the palace, really great looking stuff.

All in all, well done job again Bienie.

Thanks for the detailed feedback, and glad you had a good time! (A little too good by the looks of the screenshot!) Very strange bug with the killing, I'll have to take a look at that one. And yes, the asset pack for the Bishop's Palace is loaded with eye candy, and we have peter_spy to thank for creating it.


My Fan Missions:

   Series:                                                                           Standalone:

Chronicles of Skulduggery 1: Pearls and Swine                     The Night of Reluctant Benefaction

Chronicles of Skulduggery 2: A Precarious Position              Langhorne Lodge

Chronicles of Skulduggery 3: Sacricide

 

 

 

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20 minutes ago, wesp5 said:

Exactly. In TPW this happened to me with the assassin. I knocked her out without knowing who she was or getting any kind of quest, so when I did I had a hard time to remember where I met her! Something similar happened here with the Clara side quest: I found the solution much earlier than the quest and I guess most players will do so, unless you fix the windows ;). Also in that regard, please make it possible to take the breads before you get the quest. Just stop the player from eating them, because here again I had to backtrack a lot after getting the quest trying to remember where I already had seen them...

I was a bit afraid people would find the deed, be confused and then toss it in the trash. Hopefully the window knobs will help with that. It's also the reason for the bread loaves not being frobable before you find the objective, but I can try without that and see if it works/makes sense. I have quite a few bugs already it seems so I will likely make an update pretty soon.


My Fan Missions:

   Series:                                                                           Standalone:

Chronicles of Skulduggery 1: Pearls and Swine                     The Night of Reluctant Benefaction

Chronicles of Skulduggery 2: A Precarious Position              Langhorne Lodge

Chronicles of Skulduggery 3: Sacricide

 

 

 

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29 minutes ago, Bienie said:

I was a bit afraid people would find the deed, be confused and then toss it in the trash. Hopefully the window knobs will help with that. It's also the reason for the bread loaves not being frobable before you find the objective, but I can try without that and see if it works/makes sense. I have quite a few bugs already it seems so I will likely make an update pretty soon.

I actually tried burning the deed at one point, since I had carried it around for so long without finding the objective. I figured there must be one, just couldn't find the place. As far bread loaves, I found that one like 5 minutes in, so hadn't come across any bread at that point. Therefore, no confusion on my part.

Also about the side objectives:

Spoiler

I had done pretty much everything else before I found the bulletin board near the start area. For example, I had already found the rat-infested basement, killed the rats and collected the reward. It was a little odd I must admit; I think while doing it, I must've thought that it must be a side objective too and that the purse is the reward, but didn't consider another bulletin board, or anything really. Don't think I would've kept looking if the challenge room hadn't informed me that there are 8 secret objectives.

 

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Wow, this was one heck of a challenging experience. Loved this mission. So tough but so rewarding. This took me hours and hours to finish, two days actually. I missed out on a lot, about four thousand gold, dammit. Plus, I only got a couple of secrets. Oh well.

Had some trouble figuring out where to drop of the stuff from the side jobs, let alone where to find the rewards. But it's a small matter in such a huge, complex mission.

Didn't do the challenges yet, but found that they exist, so... yay for next time!

Had a couple of issues, though. For one, when pickling locks, whether doors or chests or whatever, I kept getting both the success and failure sounds at the same time, regardless of whether I actually succeeded or not. Kinda weird. Don't know if this was a mission-specific thing or the newest-update thing because this was the first mission I played since updating TDM... Maybe others have already mentioned this...?

Second thing was

the revenants in the crypt. I had a hunch something would be there after reading the book that warned about them, but for some reason they never triggered for me. I flipped the switches, lit the torches, got the chalice thingy, and then ran out like a bat out of hell--but nothing appeared or chased me. Hmm.

In any case, thank you so much, Bienie, for a wonderful mission ❤️

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Absolutely loved this mission. Well done Bienie! It's what I would call in my humble opinion, 'near perfect!' Right from the gun you could tell this was going to be a good one - and it was!

 

Here - take my whole night's loot for your brilliant effort!

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3 hours ago, Summer said:

For one, when pickling locks, whether doors or chests or whatever, I kept getting both the success and failure sounds at the same time, regardless of whether I actually succeeded or not.

This is a bug introduced by 2.09 and I already reported it here! Somehow I can't access the bugtracker itself though...

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On 7/21/2020 at 5:49 AM, Lzocast said:

Speaking of keys, would Dark Mod support a set up where guards you have stolen keys from could no longer open locked doors?

I think it will work that way. There are two ways to allow a guard to pass through locked doors: if they have the key, or if they have the 'can_unlock' spawnarg. So if you attach the key to the guard but don't give them 'can_unlock', they can pass through the door if they have the key, but once you steal it from them they won't be able to open the door.

At least, that's my understanding of how it works. I haven't actually tried this.

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5 hours ago, Summer said:

Wow, this was one heck of a challenging experience. Loved this mission. So tough but so rewarding. This took me hours and hours to finish, two days actually. I missed out on a lot, about four thousand gold, dammit. Plus, I only got a couple of secrets. Oh well.

Had some trouble figuring out where to drop of the stuff from the side jobs, let alone where to find the rewards. But it's a small matter in such a huge, complex mission.

Didn't do the challenges yet, but found that they exist, so... yay for next time!

Had a couple of issues, though. For one, when pickling locks, whether doors or chests or whatever, I kept getting both the success and failure sounds at the same time, regardless of whether I actually succeeded or not. Kinda weird. Don't know if this was a mission-specific thing or the newest-update thing because this was the first mission I played since updating TDM... Maybe others have already mentioned this...?

Second thing was

  Hide contents

the revenants in the crypt. I had a hunch something would be there after reading the book that warned about them, but for some reason they never triggered for me. I flipped the switches, lit the torches, got the chalice thingy, and then ran out like a bat out of hell--but nothing appeared or chased me. Hmm.

 

In any case, thank you so much, Bienie, for a wonderful mission ❤️

 

Glad you enjoyed it! Sounds like you have a lot of other content to go through when replaying it. What was the most challenging part? The sneaking or the searching?

As far as the bug is concerned:

Is it possible that you had "notarget" set when you went into the crypt? That's the only reason I could think of that would stop the revenants from spawning. They are set loose once the player steps in to the tomb of Santa Letta past the two iron gates you have to open, but if notarget is on it won't trigger.

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My Fan Missions:

   Series:                                                                           Standalone:

Chronicles of Skulduggery 1: Pearls and Swine                     The Night of Reluctant Benefaction

Chronicles of Skulduggery 2: A Precarious Position              Langhorne Lodge

Chronicles of Skulduggery 3: Sacricide

 

 

 

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4 hours ago, mango777 said:

Absolutely loved this mission. Well done Bienie! It's what I would call in my humble opinion, 'near perfect!' Right from the gun you could tell this was going to be a good one - and it was!

 

Here - take my whole night's loot for your brilliant effort!

Thank you for your kind words! Hopefully you had a nice haul of loot! ;)


My Fan Missions:

   Series:                                                                           Standalone:

Chronicles of Skulduggery 1: Pearls and Swine                     The Night of Reluctant Benefaction

Chronicles of Skulduggery 2: A Precarious Position              Langhorne Lodge

Chronicles of Skulduggery 3: Sacricide

 

 

 

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5 hours ago, joebarnin said:

I think it will work that way. There are two ways to allow a guard to pass through locked doors: if they have the key, or if they have the 'can_unlock' spawnarg. So if you attach the key to the guard but don't give them 'can_unlock', they can pass through the door if they have the key, but once you steal it from them they won't be able to open the door.

At least, that's my understanding of how it works. I haven't actually tried this.

If that is indeed possible I'd submit that as a new way to give the player options for play style. I know it would be an extra thing to have to account for when building missions, a dev could perhaps prevent the player locking the guards out of important areas by having them return to a central location once they fail to enter a locked area (key stolen) at which point a new one spawns on them (as if they've gone back to the boss and reported a lost key), you could even add in more difficulty by say once this event has occurred a certain number of times the guards all get a bump up in alert status.

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2 hours ago, Lzocast said:

If that is indeed possible I'd submit that as a new way to give the player options for play style. I know it would be an extra thing to have to account for when building missions, a dev could perhaps prevent the player locking the guards out of important areas by having them return to a central location once they fail to enter a locked area (key stolen) at which point a new one spawns on them (as if they've gone back to the boss and reported a lost key), you could even add in more difficulty by say once this event has occurred a certain number of times the guards all get a bump up in alert status.

I tested this. It does work, but only if you use the def_attach method for attaching the key (https://wiki.thedarkmod.com/index.php?title=Attaching_Props_to_AI#Belt_Objects_-_Keys). It does not work if you use the bindToJoint method for attaching the key.

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22 hours ago, Bienie said:

Glad you enjoyed it! Sounds like you have a lot of other content to go through when replaying it. What was the most challenging part? The sneaking or the searching?

As far as the bug is concerned:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Is it possible that you had "notarget" set when you went into the crypt? That's the only reason I could think of that would stop the revenants from spawning. They are set loose once the player steps in to the tomb of Santa Letta past the two iron gates you have to open, but if notarget is on it won't trigger.

 

 

I thought the toughest to spot were the windows. I couldn't always tell what could open and what not. It was a sort of hunt to find them :D

The church was the most challenging section for me. Namely the areas with the lights you couldn't turn off. I kept ending up in rooms from where I couldn't escape when a guard patrolled in. Gave me palpitations each time!

As for the bug,

no, I didn't have notarget on. Not invisible or inaudible either. I don't really use those, not even with revenants and spiders which I'm scared of, especially in confined spaces. Perhaps it was a temp thing because when I reloaded and did that part again, they triggered. I was running, trying to get to the stairs because I doubted they could climb up, and ran smack right into them.

I'm not proud to say but I screamed out loud. Just for a second. *blush*

So, thanks for that heart attack moment, Bienie ;)

Gonna try the mission again later with the challenges. I hope they're not timed or anything. I suck at those 😕

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I must be fair, i had an issue with the electric light.
I didnt enjoy it that there were no lightswitches 😕 those clearly would add alot to me.
I havent found any :c


Can we have more scary Zombie Horror maps?

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1 hour ago, Summer said:

I thought the toughest to spot were the windows. I couldn't always tell what could open and what not. It was a sort of hunt to find them :D

The church was the most challenging section for me. Namely the areas with the lights you couldn't turn off. I kept ending up in rooms from where I couldn't escape when a guard patrolled in. Gave me palpitations each time!

As for the bug,

  Reveal hidden contents

no, I didn't have notarget on. Not invisible or inaudible either. I don't really use those, not even with revenants and spiders which I'm scared of, especially in confined spaces. Perhaps it was a temp thing because when I reloaded and did that part again, they triggered. I was running, trying to get to the stairs because I doubted they could climb up, and ran smack right into them.

I'm not proud to say but I screamed out loud. Just for a second. *blush*

So, thanks for that heart attack moment, Bienie ;)

Gonna try the mission again later with the challenges. I hope they're not timed or anything. I suck at those 😕

Hm, yeah I've gathered that many players found it hard to figure out which windows are openable. I'm working on adding some tell-tale knobs that will distinguish them a bit better. The Bishop's Palace is meant to be hard, so I guess I succeeded there ^^ Though I don't feel like I was too stingy with shadows in there, every room should have shadows to hide in, even if you have to wait for a patroller to leave sometimes.

Don't worry about timed challenges, I don't do anything like that. I mostly build my missions to be slowly but thoroughly explored! I am thinking of adding a new challenge though with the update, but I can't promise. It may be worth waiting until the update for the replay.

Ah, I think I understand what happened in the catacombs then. You were probably running so fast through the trigger that it didn't have time to fire. I'll make sure to make it a bit bigger, so that the more skittish players aren't robbed of the experience!

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My Fan Missions:

   Series:                                                                           Standalone:

Chronicles of Skulduggery 1: Pearls and Swine                     The Night of Reluctant Benefaction

Chronicles of Skulduggery 2: A Precarious Position              Langhorne Lodge

Chronicles of Skulduggery 3: Sacricide

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Filizitas said:

I must be fair, i had an issue with the electric light.
I didnt enjoy it that there were no lightswitches 😕 those clearly would add alot to me.
I havent found any :c

Are you playing on Master difficulty? The lower difficulties have a lot of switches but there are very few on Master. If not you might not be seeing them. They're not actually switches, more like buttons with a wood rectangle around them.

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My Fan Missions:

   Series:                                                                           Standalone:

Chronicles of Skulduggery 1: Pearls and Swine                     The Night of Reluctant Benefaction

Chronicles of Skulduggery 2: A Precarious Position              Langhorne Lodge

Chronicles of Skulduggery 3: Sacricide

 

 

 

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16 minutes ago, Bienie said:

Hm, yeah I've gathered that many players found it hard to figure out which windows are openable. I'm working on adding some tell-tale knobs that will distinguish them a bit better. The Bishop's Palace is meant to be hard, so I guess I succeeded there ^^ Though I don't feel like I was too stingy with shadows in there, every room should have shadows to hide in, even if you have to wait for a patroller to leave sometimes.

Don't worry about timed challenges, I don't do anything like that. I mostly build my missions to be slowly but thoroughly explored! I am thinking of adding a new challenge though with the update, but I can't promise. It may be worth waiting until the update for the replay.

 

  Hide contents

 

Ah, I think I understand what happened in the catacombs then. You were probably running so fast through the trigger that it didn't have time to fire. I'll make sure to make it a bit bigger, so that the more skittish players aren't robbed of the experience!

 

 

There were plenty of shadows, that was fine. It was poor me choosing a dark corner--and then a patrolling guard deciding to stop right there, in front of my hidey hole, to stare at a painting or just plain wall, heh :D Then they usually spot me, even in near total blackness. Sigh.

I do tend to run away screaming from revenants. Not a fan. It's not even their appearance that gets me, it's the sounds. Eww.

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1 hour ago, Summer said:

I do tend to run away screaming from revenants. Not a fan. It's not even their appearance that gets me, it's the sounds. Eww.

I hate them, because fighting them is impossible. Which wasn't as big of a deal in this mission, but in others, like Alberic's Curse, I had to use cheese strats, like barricading a doorway with knee-high object, leading every revenant to the doorstep and then killing each one with a speed of one hit per hour or something. They block like crazy, I suck at it and holy water is useless.

That's one thing that kind of gets to me whenever I jump back to TDM from Thief 2 fan missions, how much more difficult most everything is in TDM. No running up to guards or one-shot backstabbing haunts. At least you can kill zombies with a sword. Not that I'm complaining necessarily, since Thief 2 is ridiculously easy, but it's always something to readjust to. Really wish that Thief 2 had a reliable light-source to carry around, though. Some fan-missions are way too dark for their own good and having to gamma-cheat kind of takes me out of it.

Edited by roygato
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On 7/21/2020 at 4:42 AM, Bienie said:

Thank you for the detailed feedback! I guess I can see how the villains are cartoonish, but the funny (or sad) thing is that it's really not that far from reality today either.

I'm finding them more realistic today as well, since the abusive people in power have set barriers around themselves so thoroughly they are near-impervious and like to flaunt their cleverness. "I did it; and it's all legal! Nya-ha-ha-ha!"

On 7/22/2020 at 1:48 AM, Bienie said:

The number code didn't work? That's strange. I assume you opened the door first? Did the lights turn on in the room when you entered the code, but the grate didn't open? Maybe try flipping on and off between the right and wrong code and hope it fixes itself, otherwise you may have to reload to a save before you tried it. Sometimes those things are a bit frail but I feel like I tried to mess it up and couldn't.

it didn't work for me, either. the 'unlock' sound played, but the grate didn't open nor did the lights come on.

On 7/24/2020 at 11:33 AM, roygato said:

That's one thing that kind of gets to me whenever I jump back to TDM from Thief 2 fan missions, how much more difficult most everything is in TDM. No running up to guards or one-shot backstabbing haunts. At least you can kill zombies with a sword. Not that I'm complaining necessarily, since Thief 2 is ridiculously easy, but it's always something to readjust to. Really wish that Thief 2 had a reliable light-source to carry around, though. Some fan-missions are way too dark for their own good and having to gamma-cheat kind of takes me out of it.

you can still one-shot backstab a haunt in TDM, it is just very tricky to do. I think they are already at a higher alertness, or something.

 

Can someone give hints to get

Spoiler

the crown from the mayor's office?

 

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2 hours ago, MrMunkeepants said:

I'm finding them more realistic today as well, since the abusive people in power have set barriers around themselves so thoroughly they are near-impervious and like to flaunt their cleverness. "I did it; and it's all legal! Nya-ha-ha-ha!"

it didn't work for me, either. the 'unlock' sound played, but the grate didn't open nor did the lights come on.

you can still one-shot backstab a haunt in TDM, it is just very tricky to do. I think they are already at a higher alertness, or something.

 

Can someone give hints to get

  Hide contents

the crown from the mayor's office?

 

I wonder if you have the "open on unlock" option turned off? That may be what's causing the problem. Try turning it on and see if it will open. If so I may need to make the grate frobable for those who play with it off.

As for the hint:

There is a note in the office area that will give you a hint, from the maker of the cabinet. So what you have to do is:

Just walk up to the cabinet from the desk, lean to the left and you should be able to frob it through the hole in the glass


My Fan Missions:

   Series:                                                                           Standalone:

Chronicles of Skulduggery 1: Pearls and Swine                     The Night of Reluctant Benefaction

Chronicles of Skulduggery 2: A Precarious Position              Langhorne Lodge

Chronicles of Skulduggery 3: Sacricide

 

 

 

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Spoiler

Tack för spelet Bienie :)

Maybe i missed it in this thread. But i cannot for my life

Spoiler

find the secret in the library

. Sometimes, i do not like secrets :)

Edited by Swedish Taffer

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2 hours ago, Bienie said:

I wonder if you have the "open on unlock" option turned off? That may be what's causing the problem.

Ah, that might be indeed the case, as I have that option off and the same happened to me! Making the grate frobbable should probably fix this.

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