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Filizitas

Player Carrying alot of loot should make noise and or make him slower?

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I cant find any topic about this with the search bar. Need a new 2020 Topic for this!

Can we have a discussion about garret stealing the entire inventory of a museum but still beeing able to walk and jump as usual?

Should the amount of loot the player stole not make noises or more?

I am looking into this as there is an inherint issue with immersion and realism.
What are thoughts abouts this?


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I've thought about this before, and feel like I've read a discussion on the topic but I could be mistaken. I think it would be quite cool to have a weight system, but it would probably have to be mission specific. I imagined the system as follows: The player has a sack where the loot goes when frobbed, this sack can be put down on the ground but doing so will only allow the player to steal a couple of items (maybe size restricted), and they would then have to return to the bag to drop it off. Carrying the bag makes the player move slower the more loot is in there, and the bag functions similar to shouldering a body when it gets heavy. Perhaps there is even a maximum weight forcing the player to only steal things with a higher value per weight. The bag would function like the inventory grid allowing the player to then take something out that's not worth stealing.

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My Fan Missions:

   Series:                                                                           Standalone:

Chronicles of Skulduggery 1: Pearls and Swine                     The Night of Reluctant Benefaction

Chronicles of Skulduggery 2: A Precarious Position              Langhorne Lodge

Chronicles of Skulduggery 3: Sacricide

 

 

 

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I cannot believe someone had the exact same idea as me. This is so on point with what i thought. Damn damn good point!

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Unfortunately I wouldn't have the foggiest how to actually make this system (or if it's even feasible). Coding/scripting is definitely my weakest skill in regards to mapping.

Edited by Bienie

My Fan Missions:

   Series:                                                                           Standalone:

Chronicles of Skulduggery 1: Pearls and Swine                     The Night of Reluctant Benefaction

Chronicles of Skulduggery 2: A Precarious Position              Langhorne Lodge

Chronicles of Skulduggery 3: Sacricide

 

 

 

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Well this is more theoretical. Ideas for enhancing the original thief formular and getting feedback from a part of the thief community.
It would need to have a setup of data for every loot item and a heavily array driven setup. The bag should be able to carry the item array and it should be part of the main system.

There are problems with this idea in regards to the dropping of the bag and the idea that you had to retrieve the bag later and go back to it over and over.


Can we have more scary Zombie Horror maps?

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If I remember right, Airship Ballet did something along these lines in her bank campaign. You get a heavy "bag" of loot that you have to actually carry with you if you want it to count toward your loot total. Perhaps taking a look at that could be helpful


 

FMs: A Good Neighbor

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Funny you should mention that, I've been thinking about that for my FM as well, since the main loot item will be something quite heavy and bulky. My first thought was that slowing movement or restricting capacity would be too punishing. Or, it would require e.g. going back and forth, and dumping loot in one location, which feels rather tedious.

But, design-wise, I thought I could use it as an excuse to e.g. make player start with just a few pieces of predetermined equipment, make a more of a procure-on-site kind of mission. I think this should be cool, mostly because, as with arbitrary difficulty levels, players usually have no idea what to expect from a new mission (as long as the intro doesn't give away the details). And, you can use carefully placed equipment (water, moss, rope arrows) to open up more paths for players as they explore the level.

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3 hours ago, Amadeus said:

If I remember right, Airship Ballet did something along these lines in her bank campaign. You get a heavy "bag" of loot that you have to actually carry with you if you want it to count toward your loot total. Perhaps taking a look at that could be helpful

I remember that the need to carry each loot bag separately to the drop point was the boring part of the mission.
I also played some dungeon crawlers and having to ride back to town multiple times to sell all the loot never added to the fun.

In general, adding repetition is reducing the fun and makes the game more boring (easy repetition) or tedious (hard repetition).

So if wanting more realism, reduce the number of bulky lootable things and increase the amount of light and tiny loot (like jewellery, coins, and documents). But whatever you do: Still have some lootable paintings in the mission - because looting paintings is fun.

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5 minutes ago, Abusimplea said:

I remember that the need to carry each loot bag separately to the drop point was the boring part of the mission.

Heh, you're not wrong. I've never been the biggest fan of inventory weight systems either. In most games it usually just ends up being a chore to manage


 

FMs: A Good Neighbor

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5 hours ago, New Horizon said:

So then along comes an encumbrance system that punishes the player for doing exactly what the game is asking them to do, alerting guards with more noise and giving the player more incentive to either engage, kill or blackjack the AI to keep them out of the way.

That's when you hit the player with the "ghost this mission or lose instantly" objective!

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No. The whole point of the game is to avoid enemies and STEAL EVERYTHING!

Punishing the player for doing what they naturally want to do is stupid.


I always assumed I'd taste like boot leather.

 

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15 hours ago, Filizitas said:

I cant find any topic about this with the search bar. Need a new 2020 Topic for this!

Can we have a discussion about garret stealing the entire inventory of a museum but still beeing able to walk and jump as usual?

Should the amount of loot the player stole not make noises or more?

I am looking into this as there is an inherint issue with immersion and realism.
What are thoughts abouts this?

I think we can't force this down everyone's throat but realistically how many players would decide to handicap themselves if this was an option?

The game is entertainment, not crime simulator.

Immersion-wise it's up to you to decide if you're actually 'grab' the loot or 'tag' it. 'Tagging' means you found it and it disappears from the list of the loot you have to search and discover in this mission.

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Go play thief simulator, there you have an encumbarance system! 😉 The game is utter crap, but still kind of fun.

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I agree with the posters above who say the player shouldn't be punished for stealing stuff, which is the point of the game.

There's already some degree of encumbrance in the game: moving objects and carrying bodies. The reason these burdens aren't overly annoying is that the player takes them on as a trade-off. You want to club that patrolling guard so he doesn't keep interrupting you? Fine, but now you have to carry him somewhere he won't be seen. You want to douse that candle? No problem, just be aware that you might accidentally clatter it against everything. Want to stack some crates to make getting over that wall easier? You can do that, but moving crates is awkward and potentially noisy.

The point is that encumbrance works if it's a short term annoyance in exchange for making your life easier long term. Becoming slower and noiser just because you're hoovering up all the gold would just be pointlessly annoying, regardless of how "realistic" it might be.


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It's kind of like these discussions on whether AI should be alerted by player shadow or player outline against bright background. I never felt it would add anything to the gameplay or immersion, more like become a list of things you have to micro-manage now.

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Sounds like there is a lot of resistance to the idea, not surprisingly. I don't think it's something you should force on the player, if anything it would have to be only applied to the highest difficulty of a mission and communicated to the player beforehand. I mostly find the idea appealing from a challenge perspective, and it is reminiscent of the weight system in Escape from Tarkov which is a super challenging game. I'm happy with the default loot system though so it's no loss if this is never implemented.

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My Fan Missions:

   Series:                                                                           Standalone:

Chronicles of Skulduggery 1: Pearls and Swine                     The Night of Reluctant Benefaction

Chronicles of Skulduggery 2: A Precarious Position              Langhorne Lodge

Chronicles of Skulduggery 3: Sacricide

 

 

 

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I am very ok with the resistence, i understand now that it wouldnt add anything to the thief soul itself.
I am interested about the idea of stealing small loots now instead of giant metal bars and golden dog statues...

Maybe there is a relation to the loot directly.

An investigation has been started


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Sure, if you prefer to have maps where the player steals rings and small gemstones rather than gold ingots and gigantic chalices that's perfectly fine.


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My missions:          the Factory Heist

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20 hours ago, Filizitas said:

Should the amount of loot the player stole not make noises or more?

No. It's a game and not about the last bit of realism, and not about anything else but gameplay decisions, which make the game more fun or not.

How realistic is it anyway to carry such a amount of loot, without offloading it somewhere in the meantime? 

Edited by chakkman
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It's clearly not ever going to be a standard feature, but I think you weren't asking for it to be.

I think there are two ways this could happen in a more limited form that would get more sympathy.

1. An individual mapper could use the mechanic for only their map, and...

2. Someone could rig a patch that players that like this idea could drop into their game folder and it would create this mechanic for all maps just for those players.

I think the first idea, if it works like what Bienie said, I think all of that could be scripted for an FM... The inventory limits, the slowing movement, using the shouldering mechanic, etc. As for the 2nd, whether that same script or something derived from it could be applied to all FMs is something I think might work but I don't know.

But it's worth somebody trying if there's a lot of interest in it. I've always thought the best way to learn the code for this game is to have a personal project like this that motivates you to figure out how the code works so you can do it. And the great thing about that is then you can help out fixing other things or have other ideas for features that can benefit all of us. So while I don't really like this idea myself (except seeing it in an individual FM might be interesting), I encourage people interested in it to try their hand at implementing it.

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What do you see when you turn out the light? I can't tell you but I know that it's mine.

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That reminds me, Unreal Tournament games had a Mutator functionality; it was an optional set of custom rules you could apply to your match, like one-shot kill weapons, giant-headed player models, rocket launchers only, etc. Maybe that kind of framework could find some use in TDM too.

Edited by peter_spy

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30 minutes ago, demagogue said:

Someone could rig a patch that players that like this idea could drop into their game folder and it would create this mechanic for all maps just for those players.

Another problem is that lots of older missions implicitly assume the player's running speed. A mission that requires a running jump to escape might become impossible if you're so weighed down by loot you can only waddle around in slow motion.

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My missions:          the Factory Heist

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It would also require an entirely new inventory management system where you can view your loot, see how much each weighs, and drop loot that is too heavy.  None of that currently exists.  Presumably it would also have to be integrated into the tools inventory system, unless loot weighs you down but tools don't.


 

 

 

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