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Hungry for Stealth open-world games on PS4 (RANT)


Fidcal

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Deleted 5 disappointing unfinished games last night that I'd downloaded recently, and that's not counting Last of Us 2. That at least had a lot of good things enough to make it playable to the (unsatisfying) end.

Most recent was A Plague Tale: Innocence. Now this has a huge amount of stealth but it's a third-person, rigid corridor world, albeit with great medieval graphics - probably the best graphics I've seen. Dark Mod would be brilliant with this engine and resources. But spoilt by zero game saves except the single auto save inventory and last checkpoint, endless replaying of frustrating puzzles (which would have been brilliant with a little optional info and hinting when needed) resulting in me having to play several utube walkthroughs else I could not continue. (Can't help thinking there should be a law about games that are unfinishable without outside help (sometimes unfinishable for many of us even with help, see following.) So yes, the ultimate killer for me was occasional forced combat but especially big boss fights:

You play a 'weak' teen girl hampered by having to help her sick little brother along. Now this appealed to me because I played Fallout 4 over TWO YEARS to all 4 endings on difficult setting. Yes, it's 1st/3rd person switchable! Discovered the most fun was before you got loads of armour, power weapons, when it was far more edgy, so played on Survival level. Finished that then started again, designed a 'weak' teen pampered girl who wouldn't wear any armour because none of it was 'fashionable' and she refused to murder humans (yes, it is just about possible to finish the entire game that way, and if anyone wants details, post here. You need some imagination to immerse in your own personal fiction) Then I played it again as this teen but with NO companion to help and NO perks.

So imagine my delight when I read about 'Plague' with loads of stealth and a weak girl protagonist. But back to the boss fights. Your only weapon is a slingshot your dad taught you an hour ago! Later (feels like almost the same day) you fight a big brute of a guy in heavy steel armour, in a confined space. I ran around trying to find a way out, then reluctantly tried my sling but my little stones just bounced off his armour (surprising that.) Oh, yeah, by the way, he has only five sentences he repeats endlessly during the 50 or 100 replays I had to endure before killing him. Anyway, I had to go on utube to see you had to hit key points on his armour until parts fall off and finally his helmet. Maybe that's a common trope in games?

But last night, captured by the English army and trying to escape, I had endless frustrating tries (really good tough stealth though) before reaching the gate without killing anyone. But then there's a staged (everything is bloody staged) combat with 5 enemy rushing at you. I managed to kill two before being over-run again. And again. And... after 5 times I exited in disgust and wiped the game.

If you don't mind occasional tough combat mixed in with good stealth then I recommend Plague even though it is third person. (might be a first person mod on PC?)

The newer Hitman 2 I mentioned elsewhere was spoilt by third person. Abandoned during the tutorial.

Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice has 3rd person stealth but I wasn't enjoying the forced combat, third person, and silly jumps instead of genuine climbing.

The Outer Worlds has some first person stealth but had no immersive character/story for me so I soon found I didn't really care what happened. Endless weak humour trivialises everything you do. Zero tension. I couldn't get excited about finding spare parts for my vacuum cleaner bot.

Far Cry 5 was the most playable, stealth and huge 1st-person open world and whatever combat you want/don't want. But about 15 times during the game you magically get a dart in your leg, are captured and have to endure staged frustrating corridor taunting torture events (this literally feels like Ubisoft torturing the player.) Plus, I read you can't really ultimately 'win' in any satisfying way at all (worse than LOU2.)

The best I could do was start again, complete the small island tutorial, then set yourself as a rebel. Fuck the Cult, fuck Dutch, and fuck Ubisoft. Play as a rebel opportunist thief who's daddy got him the job of sheriff's deputy. Don't play Ubisoft's game. Refuse to be their hero. As a looter/thief you seize the lawless opportunity to make a fortune (I aimed for $100,000) then make your 'imaginary' ending by 'escaping' the inescapable valley. You can run up the hill behind the giant YES sign until you hit the boundary warning and pretend its says WELL DONE! YOU HAVE FINISHED THE GAME! or there's what I think is a nicer 'exit' to the right of Hurk Drubman's house - right fork there is a tricky but do-able rock climb, then pretend the hollow beyond that has an old tunnel out of sight. Make sure you find out how to backup the single gamesave (VERY important) and do it VERY regularly. Now, regard the 'Resistance Points' as 'Get noticed by the Cult Points'. Instead of trying to GAIN RPs you must AVOID them at all costs. To do this you cannot liberate any cult outposts nor kill any VIP cultists nor release any captives nor destroy cult property. Shoot any captives first else if they're not tied up they'll run off and you'll be 'penalised' with RPs. An alternative of course is to tolerate a few RPs so long as you don't cross a division in the list. Apart from looting, there's LOADS of treasure stashes to find. And just cruising around is great fun for a while. Not sure it's worth full price for this game though.

So, any recommendations for good stealth, first person, preferably open-world games on PS4?

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Difficult thing to find stealth games at all these days, especially when they also have to be open world... I would say Dishonored have been the last real stealth games, but, they're not Open World. So, in your case, I'd just recommend Skyrim Special Edition. Rather a RPG obviously, but, when you go the stealth way, it can be a lot of fun, like the other Bethesda games.

Regarding the games you mentioned, I was really disappointed with The Outer Worlds. Totally hyped, and very average. I don't understand the people these days. Just because it's a small company which was oh so discriminated by the "evil" big guys, but do sooo good stuff. Not.

Anyway, apart from Skyrim, which isn't even a real stealth game, I can recommend nada. There are no real stealth games anymore these days. It's a dead genre, because the kids want ACTIOOOON. Too boring when you realistically have to be very safe and patient with a stealth approach. So, I'd just do the old stuff. Shame you don't have a Xbox One. As Ubisoft has reissued all the Splinter Cell games for the Xbox One backward compatibility program, all the old parts run on it. My favorite: The PS2/Original Xbox version of Splinter Cell Double Agent. Awesome game. But, obviously, all not Open World. I don't think you will really find what you are looking for. Stealth is dead, dead, dead, and there never was any real Open World stealth game anyway.

Edited by chakkman
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Never was any real Open World stealth game? Well not in the modern sense I guess. But Thief and Dark Mod are open - but just relatively small worlds with the missions accessed in a linear fashion. That's got me imagining a future where someone produces Dark Project and Metal Age each in one large world but you can't access all the missions immediately. Maybe some would work out of order though. But say you need Bafford's scepter like a key to get into the Boneyard - but you could go there and try - pique your interest in getting the scepter. LGS and Darkmod are still miles ahead of anything I've seen for stealth and climbing. Oh, no, Dying Light was probably the best climber. Climb anything you'd expect to. In Plague you can walk beside a three or five foot wall for miles but can't climb it until you reach one spot - much the same as everywhere else - but with the 'climb' marker. Little hedges are solid.

I might take another look at Skyrim. I finished Oblivion twice but never finished Skyrim because my interest/immersion faded. I recall something like a crypt where something like you find 7 things and plonk them on 7 places to open up something and I kind of couldn't make the effort. Now, having made Thief and TDM  missions myself, I know all games boil down to go, get, put, kill rules, so the story has to be dramatic, emotional, and fascinating enough that you WANT to! (and obscure the rules.)

Maybe I'll try Dying Light again. Must be years since I did that. Prepare myself for DY2.

Another one worth a mention I really like the look of on utube for originality is Little Nightmares (sequel coming)  interesting horror platformer 3rd person but 1st person mod for PC (apparently.) I was almost ready to buy when I discovered it was only 3rd person because I'd seen the 1st person vid on utube. But now I'm desperate enough to get it. One thing put me off is I read in the story you proceed blah blah then are trapped in a cage when you go in for food. So my feeling is I hate being forced into failing! I mean, if I see that now, I'll know - but there'll be no other option.

Ultimately I'll get Dark Mod again but my current pc is really basic and very slow. I downloaded TDM the other week but jerky even on a simple mission start. Later...

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Thief 1 and 2 had quite big levels, but, essentially they're linear games. Just one area when a mission is loaded, and no open connected world where you can go everywhere.

My dream game would be a Thief like game with city hubs like in Deus Ex or in the 2014 Thief, where you basically can go anywhere inbetween missions (actually, I think I even prefer that to open world games, where it's sometimes a bit difficult to balance the game, or to discover all of the world, if you don't want to spend hundreds of hourse). Goldwell's Northdale Act 1 had a lot of that, which was pretty awesome. I won't hold my breath though. As I mentioned, stealth is completely dead. Even nice atmospheric stuff like Dishonored seems to be pretty dead. Tough times if you like immersive sims or stealth.

Edited by chakkman
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When i read Open World Stealth game i have 2 Reactions:

First, i feel like this would be insanely massive in scope for any devteam... so probably very low in content quality. That is not thief.

Second, what a great idea man, i always wanted to explore the entire city and not just the specific parts that are sectioned. I always wanted to see beyond, wanted to see what else the world of thief worries about. The thought that besides the main story factions fight, people with new stories that invite small extra missions.

Maybe a dog fight club or the out side area full of pagans.


I see alot good in recent immersive sim games but i also see that they are mostly feature creeps. Quality suffers too much... 

Can we have more scary Zombie Horror maps?

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OK so if you want a recent-ish stealth type game that you really can finish completely no-kill (really really hard!) then check out Styx and Styx 2. Huge levels and if you don't mind the crude humor of your protagonist character, it can be a blast to play. I believe both are on PS4.

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Styx is definitely great. Quite fast paced stealth, but, very good.I'd recommend the second one though, the first had some quite big issue with A.I. awareness. I remember in some levels, they were constantly alerted, which caused quite a mess.

@Filizitas The thought of a fully open world city to explore is pretty awesome. :) Won't happen, but, hey, one can dream, hehe.

Edited by chakkman
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I am quite astonished that you had so many problems with A Plague Tale: Innocence. Apart from its VERY linear levels, I found it very enjoyable and never had to resort to external help to understand what I need to do. The forced fights can be annoying, but I found it not too difficult (not sure on which difficulty I played, but usually I play on "normal", i.e. some intermedaite difficulty). I had the experience you described with Deus Ex: Human Revolution. I played stelathy the whole game, but then came to a boss fight, in which I felt completely underpowered, because I spent no points in any combat skills. I gave up the game with this fight.

I agree with the rest that Dishonored is the closest you can get regarding the "feel" of freedom, you have in Thief, i.e. multiple ways to get to your goal; especially if you want a first person stealth game. Styx is also quite open in the individual levels, but it is 3rd person, so if you explicitly want a first person game, this will not be for you. If you can look past that and the crude humour mentioned, I would also recommend it.

Another game, you could have a look at is Seven: The Days Long Gone. It is not first person, but at least it is open world and stealth oriented. I have not really played it myself (I bought it on a Steam sale and played for 20 Minutes, but have not come back to it, because I wanted to finish other games first), so I cannot give a personal opinion, but maybe you can find a useful review and decide if it is something for you.

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I'm actually quite surprised that anyone would recommend Plague, as it's really poorly made game overall, except for beautiful visuals. The whole thing is a slog of very gamey setups, linear "guess what devs meant" design, and binary stealth. And it drags for hours without focus. I was fairly exhausted by it, and it was like "fucking finally"  than anything else when I got to the end.

I'm also surprised noone has mentioned MGS V as open-world stealth game yet. It's a fantastic game, and it has a few clever im-sim systems that you rarely see in other games (e.g. enemy changing tactics to counter yours, if you use one approach for too long). But it's third-person and it doesn't allow save scumming :D

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I actually bought MGS V on Steam, and returned it after 2 hours of playing... I found the beginning quite horrible. Maybe it gets better after that.

Not a big fan of that supernatural stuff in general though... at least not in a modern setting.

Edited by chakkman
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1 hour ago, peter_spy said:

I'm actually quite surprised that anyone would recommend Plague, as it's really poorly made game overall, except for beautiful visuals. The whole thing is a slog of very gamey setups, linear "guess what devs meant" design, and binary stealth. And it drags for hours without focus. I was fairly exhausted by it, and it was like "fucking finally"  than anything else when I got to the end.

Wow, that's quite extreme. Yes, gameplay is not the strength of this game, but it thrives on its awesome visuals, soundtrack. atmosphere and story. I loved it! I see that game in the same category as games by Naughty Dog: Excellently directed, but weak on the gameplay front.

8 hours ago, Fidcal said:

So, any recommendations for good stealth, first person, preferably open-world games on PS4?

What about Prey? I haven't played it, but it's first person and an immersive sim with stealth, so that should check a lot of your boxes. Other than that, I guess we will have to wait for Cyberpunk 2077. I am afraid, the immersive sim as a genre is almost dead... 😞

 

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Assassins Creed is a phenomenal series. I even loved the ones that sucked!! However, the stealth elements just lead up to the kills that are required to complete missions. There is no way around it as you are an "assassin" by trade. It's not a pure stealth game tho crouching around in the bushes behind unsuspecting guards and dropping from open ropes is very much fun. Highly recommended series.

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18 minutes ago, STiFU said:

Yes, gameplay is not the strength of this game, but it thrives on its awesome visuals, soundtrack. atmosphere and story. I loved it! I see that game in the same category as games by Naughty Dog: Excellently directed, but weak on the gameplay front.

The story starts out fine, but has so many ups and downs, and somewhere in the middle it turns to be a sort of medieval version of The Goonies for some reason? It introduces additional characters, but none of them have enough "screen time" to develop before game turns to family matters again. The whole thing goes for around 20 hours and gets more and more ridiculous (both narrative and gameplay-wise) from chapter to chapter. Especially since the actors' delivery is so dramatic, it becomes more of a soap opera than anything else (French voiceovers, which are the best of them all, English and German version is subpar, unfortunately). It's clear that devs were so in love with their own game that they could drag this on and on forever, but all this reinforces is the theme of a few teenagers being able to take down the whole French inquisition army with just a slingshot :D

So yeah, it's just graphics, which is a common thing with Naughty Dog, because they also have problems with mostly everything else, narrative in particular :D

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I think I know, what you mean. It is somewhat over the top after a certain point. And the comparison to Naughty Dog is not wrong in that regard. I would say it is also similar to Indiana Jones or Tomb Raidner (or generally any similar pulp fiction), which also usually start reasonably normal, but turn into some supernatural stuff after some time. This does not make the best story, but it was entertaining. So, it might be not too bad, if you see it in that light. But if you expected a well written, serious and more or less realistic stroy, I can see, why you were disappointed. By the way, I have finished the game in twelve hours (so even less than the 20 you mentioned), but I got it on a sale, so I got my money's worth out of it. An I think it was time well wasted 😉

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Ever tried the Sniper Elite games? I remember playing the third in which I always tried to play as stealthy as possible, which was very satisfying if you managed to pull it off. Never played the fourth (PC can't handle it) but supposedly it's better stealthwise than the third. Only third person though. I do remember watching one YT video though and one thing that annoyed me then was your weapon sticking out of the tall grass and the AI not seeing it.

Little Nightmares I enjoyed quite a bit and if I can remember correctly there are only a few or just that one time that you're caught and put in a cage. Other times being caught means dying, which can be hectic/frustrating sometimes. Limbo and Inside I enjoyed a lot as well, not sure if they can really be classified as stealth platformers, but same goes for Little Nightmares I guess.

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@chakkman: Maybe my memory of Thief is hazy but I thought there were lots of areas where one was free to go back and forth anywhere - and certainly fan missions. In Bafford, there's the streets then the mansion itself is the (small) open-world. You're not forced along set corridors which are blocked behind you. In fact if they'd not made escape back to the streets the final objective but 'escape with scepter to streets then they could have easily let you back into the streets anytime (maybe you can? I forget.)  Anyway, without checking through every level I wouldn't argue your point except that my memory of Thief is one of open freedom where you can choose your routes. Downloaded Skyrim, Dying Light, and Little Nightmares last night.

Not sure why you dream of city hubs (like Thief 3 and 4 I think) because they are just open world where for tech limit reasons each area has to load (slowly) as you move between. Not sure if that's been implemented in Dark Mod yet but it could be.

@Shadow: I'll definitely try Styx 1 and 2. Look good even though 3rd person. Thanks.

@Destined: Maybe I was unfair on Plague. I got stuck in only 4 places: the armour guy I mentioned. The 'run' from early on (because I now believe my ps4 controller is getting 'sticky' and jerky in some situations (not sure. I'm getting a new one delivered today I hope.) I died over and over until I carefully watched the utube vid and saw it was almost exactly how I was running (as far as I'd got) but now I knew for sure I finally managed it. (this reminds me of the horse ride escape at the start of Kingdom Come which was also impossible for me until I saw a vid and started the game again and it worked out differently. Anyway, third problem in Plague was my own fault (Unbelievably I passed an open (recessed in gloom) side doorway multiple times with even seeing it! Kicked myself when I saw the vid. Then finally the being ovverrun by multiple enemies thing. Now, fresh from the good game but spoilt experience of Far Cry 5, I was absolutely sick of trying. Maybe I'll check a vid and see if there's a trick to killing a squad of men face on with only a sling (a ledge?)  I'll take a look at Seven: The Days Long Gone - thanks for that. Finished Dishonored 1 but abandoned Dishonored 2 when I I suffered the 'what's the point' syndrome in a later level but also got sidetracked into Fallout 4 after that.

@peter_spy: I know what you mean about Plague. I think it just needed a few more hints as to direction (like Last of Us 2) plus additional 'simple' stealth rather than every ten steps there's a puzzle, plus I don't know what to add interest plus (for me) a 'skip puzzle (like in LOU2) and skip boss' option. I mean, I want part of my money back because imagine buying a movie you can't finish!

@STiFU:  Thanks I'll add Prey to my list to check out. (Unless that's that Predator on a space station game? I suffered nausea on that and had to stop. Also got bored quick. Wow! I'm getting overloaded with possibilities I never found even after many Googles over many weeks. Perhaps I was too focused on 1st person.

@freyk: assassins creed I'll rethink but I'm doubtful because of previous. & watch dogs I'll check out but suspect it's that hacking game? Didn't get along with that far for some reason I forget. Gameplay? Confusion? dunno

@Carnage: Thanks, I'll add Sniper Elite 3 & 4 to my ever-growing list!

Wow! My original post was kind of rhetorical because I didn't really expect much if anything after all my previous Googling. Thanks Everyone!

 

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That's interesting, because I didn't have problems with first boss in Plague, it did take me a few minutes to figure it out though.

But the cart pushing sequence, that was the worst thing in the game for me. At some point I had to look it up on YT, because it felt impossible to beat. It turned out you have to play it exactly like designers intended, with very precise timing and basically no room for error. This is the "mean Dungeon Master from the 90s" kind of design, and I really hate it.

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2 hours ago, Fidcal said:


@chakkman: Maybe my memory of Thief is hazy but I thought there were lots of areas where one was free to go back and forth anywhere - and certainly fan missions. In Bafford, there's the streets then the mansion itself is the (small) open-world. You're not forced along set corridors which are blocked behind you. In fact if they'd not made escape back to the streets the final objective but 'escape with scepter to streets then they could have easily let you back into the streets anytime (maybe you can? I forget.)  Anyway, without checking through every level I wouldn't argue your point except that my memory of Thief is one of open freedom where you can choose your routes.

That's not the definition of open world at all though. Open world means that you can go basically anywhere, and the whole game world consists of all the places you go to in missions/quests/whatever. Like the Bethesda Fallouts, or Skyrim. Thief is strctly linear. Meaning that you visit the places where the missions take part one by one, in the same order every time. You can't go directly to Karras' hideout in Thief 2, for example. ;) In a open world, you could, while of course it wouldn't make much sense for the game developers to let you proceed that fast when your character isn't fit for the task yet, or the story hasn't proceeded far enough. Nonetheless you can get there in the game world.

Regarding the city hubs: Maybe you misunderstand me there. City hub means that there's a connection between places where missions take part, and there are side missions and other things you can do in them. Not necessarily that there are loading times involved (city hubs don't have to be like that, as you mentioned, it's just a technical restriction, like loading interiors in a open world). City hubs bring a lot of atmosphere and life into the game world, because there is no strict "start at point A, and finish the mission at point B", but, as I mentioned, there is other stuff you can do, or it's simply a lossening up, because you can walk around without having to fear being spotted, or having to kill or knockout people. In the vein of the Deus Ex games or Dishonored.

 

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