Patch backside

[Deep]

Hey folks, was thinking about the old doom 3 mapping days and wanted to ask if anybody else also appreciated seeing the transparent backsides of patches in Camera 3D view. I thought it was very helpful just to have that additional visual in place. Any chance of working that option into DM?

Thank you

- DeeP

Edited December 29, 2020 by Deep
correction

[Deep]

Well, if anyone remembers seeing the red ghostly transparent texture through the backside of the patches during development raise your hands.

Anyone?

I am truly alone.

[OrbWeaver]

I'm pretty sure there have never been any textures shown in the 2D ortho views. Texturing simply isn't enabled in those views.

I agree that patches disappearing when you look at them from behind in the 3D view is annoying. Perhaps I'll look into it; there might be some simple OpenGL state that can be set to show the patches from behind (maybe in wireframe).

[Deep]

Ya, wire frame is basically what I was getting at because unless selected, the patch doesn't appear until you pass through it to the visible (textured) side. Also I wasn't talking about 2d at all... only discussing the 3D view. I remember seeing a transparent "representation" of the texture from the backside when selected, and visible wire frame visible when unselected (from the back side) Not that this is a "problem" or an "issue"... just a noted observation that may make editing more convenient if looked into having.

- it did enhance the sense of spacial awareness in the 3D view for sure.

Edited December 14, 2020 by Deep

[peter_spy]

Polygons are one sided and it should stay that way, as opposed to either twosided materials or geometry. If you make all polygons look double sided, you won't be able to tell the difference. Modeling apps work the same way.

Edited December 16, 2020 by peter_spy

[OrbWeaver]

1 hour ago, peter_spy said:

Polygons are one sided and it should stay that way, as opposed to either twosided materials or geometry. If you make all polygons look double sided, you won't be able to tell the difference. Modeling apps work the same way.

Blender doesn't. I can make a cube or a sphere, move the camera inside, and still see all of the geometry from the inside even though the normals are facing outwards. And I'll bet that even modelling apps that hide back-facing polygons by default will still allow you to see those polygons in wireframe mode, but even this option isn't available with the current DR renderer. If you are behind a patch, you can't see it at all no matter what rendering options you select, which is really poor usability.

Maybe in the lighting preview mode (which most people don't use) it's fine to show the patches front-facing only, exactly as the engine would do, but in the fullbright 3D mode that most mappers use for mapping, it should definitely be possible to select and view patches regardless of what side you are on.

[peter_spy]

Right, Max works the same way too, you can tell the difference by the flat shading behavior or by selecting a polygon; it has slightly darker selection color on the backside. They're also visible from both sides in wireframe. Backside is not visible only in renders, and that should stay like that.

That reminds me, if possible, all wireframe geometry should also be visible and selectable in DR ortho view. I think there's a bugtracker entry opened for that.

Edit: yup, I confused modeling apps with map editors; UE3 editor for example shows back faces only in wireframe mode. Both lit and unlit modes don't show backfaces.

Edited December 16, 2020 by peter_spy