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Extinguishing candles


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4 hours ago, Obsttorte said:

The second quote was a reaction to a generalization that I wasn't agreeing with. The more I think about it the less I see where the connection between those statements of mine are.

The more I think about it, the less I see what you were even trying to argue for. thebigh is implying that shoving the tutorial down the player's throat is hand-holding. Whether that's true or not is a game-design decision. Mentioning how software is installed is completely irrelevant. If someone prefers the presentation of the old Thief and Deus Ex, it doesn't immediately mean they want to go back to the stone age of software. I don't know why you would even bring it up.

Also, if it isn't incredibly obvious, I'm on your side in this argument. I don't see any issue with either enhancing the training mission, or adding a shortcut to it in the menu. I've already stated this multiple times. I don't think thebigh does either.

I do take the point of people just forgetting stuff, even if they have played the training, but you can say that for any game. Some of them might have contextual hints that can be toggled off (press whatever to shoulder a body, or snuff a candle). Whether that's an appropriate solution, or even wanted, is another discussion.

Edited by roygato
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That sounds like a great idea. Hopefully the original training mission doesn't disappear for good though- as rough as it is I still do like it. Perhaps incorporate it as a hidden secret in the new one? (that would actually be a good way to introduce the concept of hidden areas :) )

Making the new training mission finishable would be good though.  It would allow a nice compromise between those of us who want to encourage people to play it, and those of us who don't want to have reminders spammed at us: the reminders could get turned off once you've earned that little green tick for the mission.

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{ 0 | 🞵 } = funk_tastic

My missions:          the Factory Heist

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6 minutes ago, thebigh said:

the reminders could get turned off once you've earned that little green tick for the mission.

I thought this exact same thing the other day, so I concur. Although I wouldn't mind having any reminders come with a "Get this shit out of my face" tickbox. Depends on how they'd be implemented.

Edited by roygato
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Basically what it all boils down to is: „more options is good.” Let there be more choices, options and not less. I think this is what TDM was doing well all along.

"I really perceive that vanity about which most men merely prate — the vanity of the human or temporal life. I live continually in a reverie of the future. I have no faith in human perfectibility. I think that human exertion will have no appreciable effect upon humanity. Man is now only more active — not more happy — nor more wise, than he was 6000 years ago. The result will never vary — and to suppose that it will, is to suppose that the foregone man has lived in vain — that the foregone time is but the rudiment of the future — that the myriads who have perished have not been upon equal footing with ourselves — nor are we with our posterity. I cannot agree to lose sight of man the individual, in man the mass."...

- 2 July 1844 letter to James Russell Lowell from Edgar Allan Poe.

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