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Sophisticated choice for player to be invisible


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I must confess. that the guards see very well even in the shadows and it is not clear how to play with such opponents.  in narrow corridors, they always find out....This is clearly seen in the training mission...

I wrote this variable in the autocommand.cfg, but it doesn't work....

seta tdm_ai_sight_prob "0"

 

The player can configure the ai of the enemies in the config?

Edited by Gadavre
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The visual acuity can be adjusted in the game menu. When you go to Settings -> Gameplay -> Difficulty you can set AI vision to a lower setting. This will reduce the probability of AI seeing you. Not sure, which variable this would be in the config...

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2 hours ago, nbohr1more said:

"invisible"

is the console command.

To stop all detection ( sight and sound ) "notarget"

It's not clear to me how you could enjoy the game this way. That's stealth without challenge.

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Sure, those are trouble-shooting cvars.

I believe, if you cannot interpret the GUI settings, you can use:

tdm_ai_hearing

Entering this in the console should print the available values ( default is 2 ).

Edit: Yes, 0 is "nearly deaf" , 1 is "forgiving", etc.

Higher numbers mean higher difficulty.

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Posted (edited)

I see the problem of the game. No need to make the guards blind....Now I will write, but what  to do I dont know

Edited by Gadavre
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  • Gadavre changed the title to Unfair detection by the guards of the player
Posted (edited)

I think there's a lot of Ambient light in the game. That is, many dark places in the game are illuminated by Ambient. and sometimes it is difficult for the player to make a choice where to stand, so that the guard does not see him. It makes a very difficult game.   Ambient, of course, can not be removed, as the player will not see all the beauties of the mission

Edited by Gadavre
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  • Gadavre changed the title to Sophisticated choice for player to be invisible
3 hours ago, Gadavre said:

I think there's a lot of Ambient light in the game. That is, many dark places in the game are illuminated by Ambient. and sometimes it is difficult for the player to make a choice where to stand, so that the guard does not see him. It makes a very difficult game.   Ambient, of course, can not be removed, as the player will not see all the beauties of the mission

Are you using the lightgem?  That will tell you were you can stand and not be seen by guards.  If you crouch, you will be invisible under normal ambient lighting conditions.

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In the last update to 2'09 I have observed that the light gem is shines, even while being invisible to the guards, depending directly on the Gamma and brightness settings. I have it somewhat higher because my eyesight is no longer what it was and I have a hard time playing in environments as dark as they are by default.
This in the previous versions was not a problem with the same settings, since the light gem still showed the visibility correctly.
It would be perhaps more appropriate to use some scale as in other stealth games, this would greatly facilitate adapting the position to remain invisible.

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31 minutes ago, Zerg Rush said:

In the last update to 2'09 I have observed that the light gem is shines, even while being invisible to the guards, depending directly on the Gamma and brightness settings. I have it somewhat higher because my eyesight is no longer what it was and I have a hard time playing in environments as dark as they are by default.
This in the previous versions was not a problem with the same settings, since the light gem still showed the visibility correctly.
It would be perhaps more appropriate to use some scale as in other stealth games, this would greatly facilitate adapting the position to remain invisible.

Hmm, that is not good. If you set gamma to default 1.0 and set r_ambientGamma 1.2 does the lightgem still over-brighten?

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It's pretty much always more or less on, it's never completely dark in the settings I have.
Sure, if I reduce  the light, the gem also reduces the brightness, but then I see less than the eventual guards.
I think this should be independent of the Gamma setting, as was the case in previous versions. I haven't changed anything in the brightness settings since then.
Perhaps it would be more practical when instead of shining more or less, the gem would fill from the left to the right as a progress bar, depending on the visibility.

For the moment I will manage, relying more on the shadows and taking advantage of boxes or distracting the guards than in the gem, but this does not exactly facilitate much in missions with guards at every corner.

Edited by Zerg Rush

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3 hours ago, Zerg Rush said:

In the last update to 2'09 I have observed that the light gem is shines, even while being invisible to the guards, depending directly on the Gamma and brightness settings. I have it somewhat higher because my eyesight is no longer what it was and I have a hard time playing in environments as dark as they are by default.

Gamma settings should definitely not be affecting the lightgem.  If they are, that's a problem.

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Well, something is wrong. Today I was playing Perilous Refuge (great mission) and there, when entering the warehouse, when turning off the light, the gem even shone more than with the light on, which in my opinion cannot be right. 

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Can you verify this by also displaying the lightgem values? I think there was a console command for displaying it. If not I may have done it differently in the past and would need to provide something. Note that a brighter lightgem can have to reasons: (1) the lightgem value is higher, which would also result in you beeing more visible to the ai (which doesn't seem to be the case) or (2) the surface just gets rendered brighter.

Increasing gamma and or brightness will probably also effect the appearence of the gui elements, unless it is explicitely designed to not to. I don't know that. That the gem appeared to be brighter after turning of the light could be an optical illusion, though. It may appeaed brighter as everything else got darker. Especially when playing in a dark room this could be the case, imho.

But as afore mentioned this needs testing.

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9 hours ago, Zerg Rush said:

This is the gem in the shadow when I am invisible for the Guards

 

4m35PW1.png

 

Maybe better

ynaVd9i.gif

I hope we can find the bug that might be causing this, because your suggestion would clash completely with the look and feel  of the UI in my opinion!

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2 hours ago, wesp5 said:

I hope we can find the bug that might be causing this, because your suggestion would clash completely with the look and feel  of the UI in my opinion!

It is not necessarily this design, I have just edited it quickly to illustrate the idea

2 hours ago, Obsttorte said:

Can you verify this by also displaying the lightgem values? I think there was a console command for displaying it. If not I may have done it differently in the past and would need to provide something. Note that a brighter lightgem can have to reasons: (1) the lightgem value is higher, which would also result in you beeing more visible to the ai (which doesn't seem to be the case) or (2) the surface just gets rendered brighter.

Increasing gamma and or brightness will probably also effect the appearence of the gui elements, unless it is explicitely designed to not to. I don't know that. That the gem appeared to be brighter after turning of the light could be an optical illusion, though. It may appeaed brighter as everything else got darker. Especially when playing in a dark room this could be the case, imho.

But as afore mentioned this needs testing.

. No, no is an optical illusion. I will see this afternoon if I can make a capture. The place in question where it is most noticeable is entering the warehouse in the small room with the wine barrels that are there. By turning off the lamps there, the gem increases the brightness, also considerably. It may be a bug.
Yesterday I was thinking that the other may have to do with some incompatibility of 2.09 with my graphics card, but this I have to look more deeply. 

rOvDt70.png

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It looks like there is light coming through a grate behind you in the second shot that is not present in the first?  That is probably the source of the light, though I'm not sure why it isn't present in the first shot.  Maybe the mapper set it to only appear after the other lights were put out?

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Posted (edited)
21 hours ago, Springheel said:

Are you using the lightgem?  That will tell you were you can stand and not be seen by guards.  If you crouch, you will be invisible under normal ambient lighting conditions.

I used the command r_ambientGamma.  For example. here's what helps: r_ambientGamma 0.5 It helped.  I can see all the dark places now where the guards can't see me....But on the dark map you can hardly see all the beauty of the architecture of the level. I, for example, love Gothic architecture very much and I need for aesthetic pleasure the visibility of all the textures, decorations of the level.. But on the light level (r_ambientGamma 1), it is more difficult to play against the guards, as many dark places are shown as light....I understand that it is difficult to combine aesthetics with good proper stealth.

 

suggestion

It may be possible in the game to make the border between the light from the light sources and the dark (shadowless) places (r_ambientGamma 1) more visible for the players

Edited by Gadavre
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@Zerg RushAs Springheel wrote there is a noteable light coming from behind you. It appears that the lighting is setup in a way, that if the light source in the room gets extinguished, the light level of the moonlight coming  through the window either increases or the light was off before and get turned on. There are two reasons I think it could be set up like this. (1) is for performance reasons (only one light source in that part of the map at a time and (2) moonlight coming through the window would be barely visible when there is an active light source in the room, but the renderer might not reflect that all too well.

What is happening in your shot is that the light level of the moonlight is too high (way too high, to be honest, it almost looks like a stadium spot light shining through the window), and in this case, even higher then the light inside the room, causing your visibility to increase. This is than not a mod issue, though, but an issue with the mission. It might be worthwhile reporting it in the respective mission thread to see whether other players or the map author can second this.

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Thanks for the reply, I will report it in the mission Thread.

Respect the othe problem with visibility maybe a gem which change instead of the bright, the color from green to red are a possibility and more exact, As frame for can be used the same as the currently.

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As most players do not seem to have any issues with the current implementation I don't see any need to change it, more so I would assume any change to cause more confusion rather to improve the game feedback and that new players may simple have to get used to the way it is handled in game instead of immediately asking for changing something they blame the game to do wrong even though the majority of the players both in TDM as well as in the orignal Thief games are pretty happy with.

On the other side we could see the suggestion of making the player invisible as an incentive to finally implement the rocket launcher players were asking for all the years and, if some of the coders have some free hours on the weekend left, port TDM to the CryEngine.

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I do not intend to disparage the work of the developers, on the contrary, I consider TDM one of the best games in my collection that I have been playing since the first standalone version.
Nor do I ask for a rocket launcher, or that developers immediately sacrifice every minute of their free time to implement every tiny glitch that may exist right away.
But if I can report a possible bug and ask why it is due, as well as suggestions that perhaps in future updates may be useful for some.
So far I have not had any problem with finishing each mission, although the light gem, at least for me, is not reliable as an indicator as it is now.

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