Green shadows bug

[teddybear]

I recently switched from a 27" FHD screen to a 34" 1440p 21:9, and now I see this :

https://i.postimg.cc/t4Xb2gV0/ws5-2021-04-07-20-37-05.jpg

Edited April 7, 2021 by teddybear

[nbohr1more]

Set r_useBindlessTextures 0 in the console and restart TDM

[teddybear]

Thank you !

[stgatilov]

@teddybear, did you also update video drivers?
Or install new GPU?
Or plugged a different GPU to the new monitor?  (in case you have several, like integrated Intel HD + discrete AMD Radeon)

[teddybear]

@stgatilov

No, Only new monitor, and all is updated (game, and graphic driver).

Edited April 10, 2021 by teddybear

[OrbWeaver]

I just started a new installation of TDM on Windows 10 with AMD Vega 56 (drivers 2021.04 or thereabouts) and got the green textures problem.

I recommend that r_useBindlessTextures is not enabled out of the box, since it's clearly causing problems for many people.

[HMart]

I totally agree with OrbWeaver. Today I fired TDM up after a long hiatus, only too see this problem and I also have a AMD GPU a RX 570X, tried two different driver versions same problem, so I assume is not a driver problem but seems to be a case of bindless textures not working correctly on AMD GPU's.

IMO it should be a option for Nvidia users on the menu, perhaps with a warning/hint that it may or may not work on AMD/Intel hardware. 

Btw the more I read about this particular feature the more I see Nvidia mentioned on it, making me think that this is a case of Nvidia tech not playing well in their competitors hardware. 

I think so, because of the following two things, is a old discussion so maybe very outdated but on the khronos forum someone says, that BT is a Nvidia patented feature and on the khronos OpenGL wiki it says "This is not a core feature of any OpenGL version; at present, it only exists as an extension." a NV_ extension plus a ARB_ one, if true that is a extension to OpenGL and one by Nvidia, no surprise it has problems on AMD, afaik both it and Intel are known for only optimizing for OpenGL core features and their own extensions, it also says "both AMD and NVIDIA have a lot of hardware that can handle it" but based on what is happening here, I don't think that is entirely true, at lest on the AMD side and perhaps Intel.

Edited May 2, 2021 by HMart

[stgatilov]

19 minutes ago, HMart said:

IMO it should be a option for Nvidia users on the menu, perhaps with a warning/hint that it may or may not work on AMD/Intel hardware.

Well, the last resort option would be to disable it if OpenGL reports something with "amd" in vendor name

Quote

a NV_ extension plus a ARB_ one, if true that is a extension to OpenGL and one by Nvidia, no surprise it has problems on AMD, afaik both it and Intel are known for only optimizing for OpenGL core features and their own extensions, it also says "both AMD and NVIDIA have a lot of hardware that can handle it" but based on what is happening here, I don't think that is entirely true, at lest on the AMD side and perhaps Intel.

We use ARB extension: it is an officially approved extension by OpenGL standard writers, as far as I understand.

As far as I remember, the policy is that if extension is restricted by patents, then it cannot be made "ARB" extension. That's how it was with anisotropic filtering extension. So I seriously doubt the "patented" part.

I think most vendors optimize and debug ARB extentions most, because they know that developers will use them. Vendor extensions are mostly for early adoption of some feature which vendor thinks is cool but nobody has yet implemented it in OpenGL. Developers won't use them unless they provide huge boost to them and there is no alternative... which is quite rare.

If AMD did not care about this extension, they wouldn't have implemented it. The previous GPUs did not report this feature as available, so there is no problem there. But for new GPU, AMD spent some effort to implement it, and new GPU now reports this feature as available. However, it is buggy.
And yes, nobody cares to fix it. Probably AMD does not have too much people to fix everything, so they prioritize. Whoever uses cool modern GL features would prefer Vulkan and DirectX over OpenGL.

 

[OrbWeaver]

1 hour ago, stgatilov said:

And yes, nobody cares to fix it. Probably AMD does not have too much people to fix everything, so they prioritize. Whoever uses cool modern GL features would prefer Vulkan and DirectX over OpenGL.

Regardless of who is ultimately responsible, if it doesn't work correctly for a significant number of players, I suggest it isn't the default (but can still be available as an option). If the game doesn't work out of the box people will ultimately blame the mod developers for releasing a buggy game, and may not even look at the forums to learn whether it is actually a case of AMD drivers not implementing an extension correctly (they'll probably just rage quit and delete the mod entirely).

Are we absolutely 100% sure that it is actually a case of a broken driver? Could it be that we are not using the extension exactly as the specification demands, or are exercising some edge case that AMD aren't expecting most games to use?

[cabalistic]

13 minutes ago, OrbWeaver said:

Are we absolutely 100% sure that it is actually a case of a broken driver? Could it be that we are not using the extension exactly as the specification demands, or are exercising some edge case that AMD aren't expecting most games to use?

I'm 95% sure. It works fine on NVIDIA and Intel (recent ones that actually support the extension), and it works on some AMD cards, too. In fact, I remember at least one report where it only broke after a driver update. Which is also the reason why we chose to enable it by default - reports of broken behaviour on AMD only came later and never materialised in internal tests

[stgatilov]

7 hours ago, cabalistic said:

Which is also the reason why we chose to enable it by default - reports of broken behaviour on AMD only came later and never materialised in internal tests

I think the first ones were happening very early.
But it surely did not look so bad as it looks now

[HMart]

Does anyone know on what AMD driver this feature worked? I tested on 21.3.2 and 21.4.1 both displayed the problem, would like to try one that works but would also like to avoid installing drivers at random and see what works or not.

Btw if anyone with a AMD GPU haven't done it yet, I recommend using the bug report available in the driver GUI at the top right corner, I did it, don't know if they will care for a free game like TDM but there's no harm in trying to report it and imo the more people that do it the chance of them taken notice is higher. 

There's also Terry Makedon or something in twitter, afaik he is the driver department manager, he posts about the AMD drivers in his tweeter account, so could be a nice place for a bunch of us to report this to him, visibility could make them prioritize a fix. 

[roygato]

On 5/3/2021 at 11:53 AM, HMart said:

Does anyone know on what AMD driver this feature worked? I tested on 21.3.2 and 21.4.1 both displayed the problem, would like to try one that works but would also like to avoid installing drivers at random and see what works or not.

I have a Vega 56, running a 20.35.10.02 driver, and I don't get this issue.

[HMart]

Thanks roygato, will try those when I have the chance.