Fan Mission: The Hare in the Snare, Part 1

[Frost_Salamander]

@TarhielFYI you CAN blackjack all these guards.  Just because they have a helmet doesn't mean you can't KO them.  They are only immune to KO when they are alert, so you have to be careful not to alert them while sneaking up on them.  However, I see now that the perception seems to be that 'has helmet = no KO' as you're not the first person to think this so will keep that in mind for future missions.

[Kerry000]

Hi @Tarhiel,

Thank you for taking the time to reply in such detail. I'll gladly answer the questions you've raised.
 

Spoiler

Firstly, as @Frost_Salamander stated above, you certainly can blackjack the guards in the manor. You can blackjack everyone in the mission except for the Dalton brothers who, as Hales' says in her journal, are just too stupid to feel it. Taking them on would be like taking on a pair of trolls. It's why you need to find another way.

Regarding the unanswered questions about Hales, she is a central and recurring character who you will learn a lot more about in the coming FM's. Why she hates street people and why she left the City Watch are all crucial to defining who she is as a character. Both the questions you've asked will be answered. As to whether or not she's the real villain, you'll have to wait and see  

Captain Williams is also a recurring character. The items you leave on his desk are the evidence for the case he is building, Any other important information he might need he will get from the player character directly. This will be clear at the start of Part 2. Don't worry, he will soon know exactly who he is up against.

You said you found 3 out of 5 secrets. May I ask which ones you found?

Thank you again for your kind words. We worked very hard on the readables in order to make them engaging for the player.

[Dosh]

Hello, I am somewhat new to TDM, been playing for 2 or 3 months now. Made an account here to tell you that I've enjoyed this map and I'm looking forward to it's sequel. Very interesting story!

[Gerberox]

The story is well written. I liked the thing the story doesn't explain everything and there are some unsolved mysteries for the sequel.

I found loot worth about 4600 and 4 secrets. What I didn't find it's the exit door. It would be too tedious to search everything again so it's okay.

 

[Frost_Salamander]

7 hours ago, Gerberox said:

The story is well written. I liked the thing the story doesn't explain everything and there are some unsolved mysteries for the sequel.

I found loot worth about 4600 and 4 secrets. What I didn't find it's the exit door. It would be too tedious to search everything again so it's okay.

 

Hi @Gerberox Finding the exit is pretty straightforward - would you like a hint?  Also if you didn't finish the mission you'll miss out on the debrief video

[Kerry000]

 

 

[Gerberox]

Ah, thx. I didn't think that door can be opened for some reason. My bad.

Spoiler

How do we know Jacob is alive anyway? Was there something in the dialogs?

 

[Kerry000]

@Gerberox,

Yes, it was mentioned twice...

Spoiler

- In the note (Jacobs' evidence) on the wall beside the bloody chair. It's one of the main objectives. Hales specifically states that he was sent for transportation with the other captives.

- In Jacobs' own letter to you, the player character, which is one of the 5 hidden secrets.
 

 

Edited April 26, 2021 by Kerry000

[TheMalkavian]

It was a fun mission, seemed to be pretty open (tho I do not understand why only one manor had working Street Level Doors, where you could pretty much aproach most of them from inside and outside). The secrets were quite nice, if I only managed to find four of them.

Spoiler

The Hangman, The Secret Passage, The Birdman, I found Jacobson's Letter after reading the thread and learning it exists, it doesn't count in my opinion, tho probably means I should use lantern more.

It took me about an hour and a half, managed to fing about 4446 in loot, so more than 10% lacking to the hardest difficulty task, but I figured out all the additional objectives. The readables were plesant, so was the plot. The only problem is the fact that dubbing in the cutscenes are worse than main hero's dialogue in game. Mostly due to weird word accenting.

Edit:

Spoiler

Okay, after reading trough rest of the thread I discovered the study. Tho the problem is I still lack a lot of loot to concider the objective finished. I ended up with 4551, 815 in jewels, 1845 in goods and 1891 in gold. To be frank I do not know where I missed anything.

 

Edited April 27, 2021 by TheMalkavian

[Tarhiel]

On 4/25/2021 at 9:37 PM, Kerry000 said:

Hi @Tarhiel,

Thank you for taking the time to reply in such detail. I'll gladly answer the questions you've raised.
 

  Reveal hidden contents

Firstly, as @Frost_Salamander stated above, you certainly can blackjack the guards in the manor. You can blackjack everyone in the mission except for the Dalton brothers who, as Hales' says in her journal, are just too stupid to feel it. Taking them on would be like taking on a pair of trolls. It's why you need to find another way.

Regarding the unanswered questions about Hales, she is a central and recurring character who you will learn a lot more about in the coming FM's. Why she hates street people and why she left the City Watch are all crucial to defining who she is as a character. Both the questions you've asked will be answered. As to whether or not she's the real villain, you'll have to wait and see  

Captain Williams is also a recurring character. The items you leave on his desk are the evidence for the case he is building, Any other important information he might need he will get from the player character directly. This will be clear at the start of Part 2. Don't worry, he will soon know exactly who he is up against.

You said you found 3 out of 5 secrets. May I ask which ones you found?

Thank you again for your kind words. We worked very hard on the readables in order to make them engaging for the player.

Sorry for the later reply:

It was these secrets:

Spoiler

1. hanged man

2. bird man

3. I forgot this one, probably some loot or some hidden area, maybe the one in which connects the Tottenhaums room with the balcony where you can find golden looking glass on a table?

 

[Kerry000]

1 hour ago, Tarhiel said:

Sorry for the later reply:

It was these secrets:

  Hide contents

1. hanged man

2. bird man

3. I forgot this one, probably some loot or some hidden area, maybe the one in which connects the Tottenhaums room with the balcony where you can find golden looking glass on a table?

 

Okay, thank you @Tarhiel,

That means you missed two story-related secrets...

Spoiler

- The letter Jacobs left behind for you, the player character. He knew you'd come looking for him and left you a hidden note.

- Ingleby Jr's secret hideaway, in which you find his spy journal. The spy journal contains the hint for the secret passage between Twistleton's study and his balcony, so well done for finding the passage without reading the spy journal

 

[fraten]

Thank you for this very good mission. I finished, but could not find the 5th secret. Any hints where

Spoiler

the letter from Jacobs to me might be? 

 

[Frost_Salamander]

Hi @fraten:

Spoiler

check the holding cells in the tunnels very carefully, especially one that looks like the occupant may have been treated a little roughly

 

[tapewolf]

This was really well put together and I'm eagerly awaiting the followup.  The storytelling was brilliant and the difficulty was about right... I managed to find 4 of the 5 secrets off my own bat.

My one criticism is that the voice acting in the intro, although well-recorded, sounded a little wooden, people reading a script rather than living the parts.  I appreciate that's not going to be easy or quick to change but it might be something to watch out for in the future.

Having an outtro video was excellent, though.  I wish more people would do that!  It's annoying to have this great story build-up and then... just a score with the intrigue left hanging rather than an aftermath or epilogue of any kind.  So very well done for that.

[SuaveSteve]

Superb. 

My only issue is with that 'busy inn' sound effect. It's very jarring when you are looking at the scene from the inside and what you are seeing is not matching the hustle and bustle of the sound.

Oh, and consider doing a short hint guide (like this). Does not have to be as detailed, but great when you need that small nudge.

[roygato]

After running around for three hours to meet the expert loot quota, I'm finally finished. Quite enjoyable. As mentioned, the end cinematic was a really nice touch. Don't see that almost ever, but it wraps especially these narrative-driven missions very nicely.

The design is somewhat peculiar, since you can't enter any of the buildings the normal way, so you end up running this U-shaped gauntlet back and forth. Does Twistleton's place really not have a key to the front door? That's just cruel.

The loot goal is one gripe I had. It is an optional objective, but it's also not very fun to try and achieve. I tend not to be a huge fan of having to find 99,9% of the loot, expert or not. You miss one pixel-sized object and you'll drive yourself insane. My final time was 2,5 hours; I reckon half of it was trying to find loot, which is usually a bad thing.

I also have something to say about the secrets.

Spoiler

You guys really went ham with how small and undetectable you can make the buttons. The secret passage behind the painting in Twistleton's bedroom I didn't even realize how I opened. I was just running around frobbing every painting to figure out which ones were loot, and accidentally opened the secret door. Took some inspecting to find the button.

The wine-rack wasn't a whole lot different. In fact, I opened it due to a bug, you can frob the lever in the secret room through the wall. Again, had to reverse-engineer the actual button location.

I did happen to find all the secrets, which almost never happens, so there is that. The abomination beast in the optional house was mildly horrifying.

The story

Spoiler

is pretty good, namely because there ends up being so many different players involved. I was probably expecting the basement reveal to be something even more heinous, but it's all good.

Forgetting the loot-hunt, I did have fun. Looking forward to seeing more.

[Frost_Salamander]

Thanks @roygato.   Yeah the expert loot goal is probably too high, it might as well just say 'find ALL the loot'.  That and...

Spoiler

the wine rack frob bug

...are down on the list to fix on a future update.

 

EDIT:  Regarding the comment about the building entrances:

• Most of the buildings don't have usable front doors to encourage vertical exploration.  I thought players liked that?  Personally I'd rather that than having to pick 10 different front door locks with guards walking by every couple of minutes.

Spoiler

 

• Twistleton's manor does have a front door, but you can only get the key to it from inside (it's on a guard belt).

 

Edited May 2, 2021 by Frost_Salamander

[roygato]

2 hours ago, Frost_Salamander said:

Thanks @roygato.   Yeah the expert loot goal is probably too high, it might as well just say 'find ALL the loot'.  That and...

  Hide contents

the wine rack frob bug

...are down on the list to fix on a future update.

 

I do appreciate it being optional. Thinking about it meta-game -wise, it sometimes gets silly when the goal is really difficult to meet, and your thief character insists on spending like all week in the mansion to find one more coin.

 

2 hours ago, Frost_Salamander said:

EDIT:  Regarding the comment about the building entrances:

• Most of the buildings don't have usable front doors to encourage vertical exploration.  I thought players liked that?  Personally I'd rather that than having to pick 10 different front door locks with guards walking by every couple of minutes.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

• Twistleton's manor does have a front door, but you can only get the key to it from inside (it's on a guard belt).

 

I don't mind having no traditional entry-points; finding your way is fun. It just depends on how the mission layout is designed, whether running back-and-forth becomes tedious or not. In this case, the area is small enough that it was fine.

Spoiler

If the manor door actually has a key to it somewhere, that's completely fine. Just couldn't find it, even though I went through every NPC.

 

Edited May 2, 2021 by roygato

[Dead Rat]

Played this on Hard and thoroughly enjoyed it. Fine work Frost_Salamander and Kerry000! Looking forward to Part 2.

[maxrenn8]

On 5/2/2021 at 7:06 AM, roygato said:

After running around for three hours to meet the expert loot quota, I'm finally finished. Quite enjoyable. As mentioned, the end cinematic was a really nice touch. Don't see that almost ever, but it wraps especially these narrative-driven missions very nicely.

The design is somewhat peculiar, since you can't enter any of the buildings the normal way, so you end up running this U-shaped gauntlet back and forth. Does Twistleton's place really not have a key to the front door? That's just cruel.

The loot goal is one gripe I had. It is an optional objective, but it's also not very fun to try and achieve. I tend not to be a huge fan of having to find 99,9% of the loot, expert or not. You miss one pixel-sized object and you'll drive yourself insane. My final time was 2,5 hours; I reckon half of it was trying to find loot, which is usually a bad thing.

I also have something to say about the secrets.

  Hide contents

You guys really went ham with how small and undetectable you can make the buttons. The secret passage behind the painting in Twistleton's bedroom I didn't even realize how I opened. I was just running around frobbing every painting to figure out which ones were loot, and accidentally opened the secret door. Took some inspecting to find the button.

The wine-rack wasn't a whole lot different. In fact, I opened it due to a bug, you can frob the lever in the secret room through the wall. Again, had to reverse-engineer the actual button location.

I did happen to find all the secrets, which almost never happens, so there is that. The abomination beast in the optional house was mildly horrifying.

The story

  Hide contents

is pretty good, namely because there ends up being so many different players involved. I was probably expecting the basement reveal to be something even more heinous, but it's all good.

Forgetting the loot-hunt, I did have fun. Looking forward to seeing more.

Are you certain it was a painting in Twistleton's bedroom that opened to a secret passage?

[roygato]

I believe so.

[maxrenn8]

4 hours ago, roygato said:

I believe so.

I found that painting and the secret passage but it wasn't in the bedroom. It's nearby.

[roygato]

Oh, well I may have made a mental error while writing my original post. Did not go back to check, so it's very possible my room assessment was wrong.

[gokudo]

Had way more depth than I expected. A real treat. I look forward to future releases!

[grodenglaive]

Great mission thanks! Interesting story; looking forward to Hare in the Snare part 2