Ghosting the Dark Mod

[Zerg Rush]

For the perfect finish you should say at the end 'All loot', which is sometimes not only almost impossible to find every coin lost there, but also sometimes causes some ethical qualms about removing the 4 coins from a beggar's basket.

[wesp5]

11 hours ago, AluminumHaste said:

A crate and sufficient height

Well, it never was that important to me :)!

[AluminumHaste]

Sorry, basically anything with sufficient mass will work, such as chairs and other objects.

[wesp5]

47 minutes ago, AluminumHaste said:

Sorry, basically anything with sufficient mass will work, such as chairs and other objects.

In that case I wonder why the blackjack itself should not work. Maybe you juat gave me an excuse to fix that in my Unofficial Patch ;)!

[AluminumHaste]

The blackjack is really low mass, and you can't swing it that fast.

A box weighing like 20 pounds falling on your head at some high speed is a lot more energy.

And a chair is also pretty heavy in comparison to the backjack. Can you pick up a chair with one hand and hold it over your head?

[wesp5]

3 hours ago, AluminumHaste said:

The blackjack is really low mass, and you can't swing it that fast.

I disagree. I think the reallife counterparts of blackjacks were quite heavy and could have brought up to a tremendous speed hitting only a very small area. Compared to that a wooden chair just falling from a moderate height should not have enough impact.

[AluminumHaste]

Compared to a chair....made of solid wood.

Most info I can find online is saps/blackjacks around 12 ounces.

 

https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/vintage-police-blackjack-sap-1887254010

Here is a vintage one, it's 8 ounces.

Even lightweight chairs designed for mobile use, were still around 180-240 ounces.

The lightest example I could find was a pine chair used for travelling shows so needed to be lightweight, and that was still 160 ounces (10 pounds).

[wesp5]

7 minutes ago, AluminumHaste said:

Most info I can find online is saps/blackjacks around 12 ounces.

Still unless you drop the chair from very high up, he would not have much acceleration and probably would also not hit a sensitive part of the enemy. Speaking of which, are the elite guards helmets supposed to have special buffers onto the shoulders or why do they don't react to blackjacking while other guards with similar helmets do?

[AluminumHaste]

They are KO immune to the blackjack.

And yeah, you need to drop the chair in the game from a lot higher than say a crate.

[Dragofer]

2 hours ago, wesp5 said:

I think the reallife counterparts of blackjacks were quite heavy and could have brought up to a tremendous speed hitting only a very small area.

Applying a high pressure over a small area is something you'd want if you wanted to fracture (impact) the bone.

For achieving concussion, it'd take a lot of kinetic energy to that body part which is passed on underneath, shearing nerve axons and membranes so that their function is disrupted.

Kinetic energy increases linearly with mass but exponentially with velocity, so maybe a very fast blackjack can attain more KE than a chair that dropped only from a couple meters. But what might be worth imagining: how fast could you swing/throw a chair with one arm, and how would that compare to letting it drop x metres?

 

Re: the elite guard helmets, I suppose they have better protective layers to dissipate the kinetic energy of the impact.

[Zerg Rush]

With the heavily armored elite guards I don't even try to do anything with Blackjack, with this I only make them angry, against these by definition only a gas arrow or mine works.

Edited July 22, 2021 by Zerg Rush

[AluminumHaste]

2 hours ago, Zerg Rush said:

With the heavily armored elite guards I don't even try to do anything with Blackjack, with this I only make them angry, against these by definition only a gas arrow or mine works.

Or drop something heavy on their heads

EDIT: Honestly it's super easy, you just need a bit of practice.

 

[Klatremus]

Not sure if people already know, but marbleman and I have recently made some narrated playthroughs of TDM missions where we use the Ghost/Supreme rules. Here are the ones we've done recently:

 

 

 

Enjoy!

[Klatremus]

New Supreme Ghosting video:

 

[marbleman]

Might as well post the two other videos I recorded a while ago.

 

 

 

[Araneidae]

On 11/10/2021 at 12:17 AM, Klatremus said:

New Supreme Ghosting video:

 

Are you allowed to use tools and did you have broadhead or moss arrows?  Wonder if either of those would have helped with the last loot item (knock it off the ledge in true Tears of St Lucia style, or can you moss coat a pipe)?

Enjoyed watching that, appreciated your calmness in face of what is a frustrating mission in places: that damned brightly light archway!

[Klatremus]

Supreme allows the use of some tools, but not moss arrows to soften landings. You can knock loot around as long as you are not heard in the process. I have done that a few times in Thief. Didn't think of that to be honest, but I want to avoid using consumables if possible. Plus I assume that would've been just as loud as hopping on that pipe, or no? Thank you for your kind words about the video. Many years of Supreme ghosting has definitely made me more patient yes, so thanks for noticing lol.

Here is another one:

 

[Araneidae]

@Klatremus, I had a thought about leaving the note from our fellow thief behind in "Fiasco".  It seems to me that it might well have been more in spirit with "you were never there (except all the loot has gone)" to have taken the note away with you: after all, the note is to us and leaving it behind is a kind of evidence against us.

[Klatremus]

Leys Supreme Ghost The Dark Mod - Thief's Den 2

 

[Xolvix]

Hey @Klatremus, just wanted to say I've recently found out about your vids and find them quite interesting, but... good lord, 0 score with hardcore AI vision/hearing? I mean I get it, it's the whole point of the ghost run and has specific rules you have to adhere to, but how do manage to have such patience? I've got both set to forgiving and even then I feel the AI is tougher than most stealth games

On the other hand it did take quite a long time, required 75 saves and god-knows how many reloads, so at least you weren't too crazy. But damn, maybe you should have! I demand the next video require zero saves - screw up and it's a full mission restart! Let's see how long the videos take then!

Edited December 5, 2021 by Xolvix

[Klatremus]

I have Supreme Ghosted missions since 2003, so I have probably built up some patience over time. Plus we have 3 little (and loud) kids running around at home, so that probably plays a part too, haha. 

Saving/reloading isn't a part of any of the ghost rules, so I definitely won't add that requirement.

[Zerg Rush]

Someone has played "The Painters Wife", 0 points, all loot, without kill or KO in hard level? I, at least I have no illusions in this mission, the last time I was beaten well. Most of the guards were already walking around with sword in hand. In the end I have not even bothered to look at the statistics.
The girl must also have ended up covered in bruises, the number of times I had to throw her in the street.

Edited December 6, 2021 by Zerg Rush

[Klatremus]

I haven't played Painter's Wife but I think marbleman said he had gotten a perfect 0 quite easily. Perhaps I am mistaken; he might weigh in.

[Zerg Rush]

I only have exit with ghosting with all loot in some short missions until now, but never in huge mission like the Painters wife and others, some points and not all loot for me in these are normal.

[marbleman]

In The Painter's Wife, guards alert when certain loot goes missing. I know they notice when the painting is gone, but there might be a few other pieces they react to as well. This doesn't count in the stats, but it might explain why you saw them walking around with swords unsheathed.

 

Additionally, weird things can happen, especially in a huge mission like this. If you've seen my Perilous Refuge video, you may remember that everyone on the ship suddenly became alerted at one point. I actually went back and looked around after I finished the recording and found one of the thieves dead on the pier. I have no idea how he died, but the alerts must have been to discovering his body.