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[ 2.10 ] New Frob Shader


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7 minutes ago, roygato said:

Finally

Stgatilov is a TDM dev and he quoted me. So I replied, even though I'm just reiterating what I already said. Since you're just bored^ and already wasted tons of my time, you're not going to get the same treatment.

Now excuse me, I have an exciting little project to start 🙂

Edited by peter_spy
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Well off with you then, your Lordship. :awesome: Don't let us peasants stand in your way.

But honestly, seeing how much time you've spent on this topic alone, I doubt it's as much of a case of "I have nothing more to say", as it is "I am always right and everyone else should just accept it".

That said, I have no particular beef with you other than that. If you help the mod to be better in the future, I can only benefit from it. The assets of yours I've already seen have been really nice. But you won't have things go your way all the time. Getting offended over nothing won't help your cause.

EDIT: Also, calling a respectful discussion (argument if you will) a "waste of time" because your feelings are hurt, should definitely give pause to anyone looking to collaborate with your ideas in the future. I sure hope, for your sake, you didn't deem it a waste because I shared opinions that others in the forum also have (based on some of the reactions I've gotten) that just don't align with yours.

Edited by roygato
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I'm not offended, I'm tired, by you.

You use the same old tricks I've seen everywhere else, and ignoring most of the on-topic stuff I already wrote, so it really stopped being a discussion some time ago. All this stuff is exhausting and it distracts me from doing creative stuff that came up with the talks on the margin of this topic, and has a chance to be a positive contribution to the mod, regardless of the actual frob implementation. Stop replying to me, I really don't have anything more to say, and neither have you. Whatever you say next will be ignored by me.

Edited by peter_spy
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Now I have to apologize to the mods, because it seems I'll keep going with this off-topic. :awesome:

You are clearly offended. That's fine, but if you really plan on making ground on a collaborative process like TDM, you should expect there to be those that won't just let people like you walk all over them.

Every single argument you posted I've replied to, other than ones that relate to your anecdotal RL experiences. I've been very respectful while doing so. I've even given concessions (such as not deeming junk a necessity for immersive sims - as there are many immersive sims). If there are any specific things I've missed, I am sorry, feel free to point them out. On the contrary, when I bring up something that contradicts you (Dishonored, while it doesn't have junk, it does have customizable UI stuff like this highlighting thing), you ignore it completely.

I'm not using any "tricks". I simply got caught in a discussion on a game I love. On an OPTIONAL feature that you deem will be a massive hindrance. It won't. People have already agreed on some of the points I've made and shared their own views that support my comments. So I believe what I've written makes sense, and is relevant.

The only person wasting your time is yourself. You could've decided, from the first "irrelevant" point I made, to ignore me, but you didn't. Neither did you ignore anyone else, you just wanted to keep pushing your view. Which is awesome, we need to have back-and-forths like this. But get off your damn high-horse, would you? You can look down your nose at me, because you've been contributing to the mod for a while now, or for whatever other reason you make up, but don't just dismiss my, or others, legitimate points, because of completely bizarre reasons like "I'm tired" or "it's a waste of time". Get off the forums, do your thing and prove me wrong if I'm such a nuisance.

And seeing how you lasted all of 20 minutes with "being done with me", I don't expect you to stay away from this one either.

Edited by roygato
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19 hours ago, roygato said:

Now I have to apologize to the mods, because it seems I'll keep going with this off-topic. :awesome:

You are clearly offended. That's fine, but if you really plan on making ground on a collaborative process like TDM, you should expect there to be those that won't just let people like you walk all over them.

Every single argument you posted I've replied to, other than ones that relate to your anecdotal RL experiences. I've been very respectful while doing so. I've even given concessions (such as not deeming junk a necessity for immersive sims - as there are many immersive sims). If there are any specific things I've missed, I am sorry, feel free to point them out. On the contrary, when I bring up something that contradicts you (Dishonored, while it doesn't have junk, it does have customizable UI stuff like this highlighting thing), you ignore it completely.

I'm not using any "tricks". I simply got caught in a discussion on a game I love. On an OPTIONAL feature that you deem will be a massive hindrance. It won't. People have already agreed on some of the points I've made and shared their own views that support my comments. So I believe what I've written makes sense, and is relevant.

The only person wasting your time is yourself. You could've decided, from the first "irrelevant" point I made, to ignore me, but you didn't. Neither did you ignore anyone else, you just wanted to keep pushing your view. Which is awesome, we need to have back-and-forths like this. But get off your damn high-horse, would you? You can look down your nose at me, because you've been contributing to the mod for a while now, or for whatever other reason you make up, but don't just dismiss my, or others, legitimate points, because of completely bizarre reasons like "I'm tired" or "it's a waste of time". Get off the forums, do your thing and prove me wrong if I'm such a nuisance.

And seeing how you lasted all of 20 minutes with "being done with me", I don't expect you to stay away from this one either.

Please move this to a private discussion directly with @peter_spy, if you two intend to follow up on this. It really IS off-topic.

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I think the junk objects problem will be largely solved once the new frobbing physics is implemented, so you can actually pick up junk and put it down quietly (just as you could in real life) without alerting every guard in a 50 foot radius.

One thing that would potentially even more useful than highlighting loot objects, would be using the highlight to distinguish between "about to pick up something" and "already holding something". To me it seems that the current interface makes no distinction between these two states, so I don't know if I'm actually holding the candle until I rotate the view and see if it moves with me.

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16 minutes ago, JackFarmer said:

@nbohr1more

How do I get the cool effect you have posted? This was added with 2.08, but I cannot activate it...? When I use the command given here, I receive some sort of "white" frobbing effect.

This is in the 2.10 beta:

My settings:

   r_newFrob = "1"


    r_frobHighlightColorAddB = "0.02"
    r_frobHighlightColorAddG = "0.001"
    r_frobHighlightColorAddR = "0.001"

    r_frobOutlineColorA = "0.85"
    r_frobOutlineColorB = "0.65"
    r_frobOutlineColorG = "0.1"
    r_frobOutlineColorR = "0.1"
    r_frobOutline = "1"

    r_frobIgnoreDepth = "0"

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I was wondering. If the new shader will be this rainbow color-coded thing, are there any plans for it to be customizable, beyond "on/off"? After seeing the few screenshots, I would be interested in trying out the new one for loot, but the blue-tint for NPCs is completely unnecessary, and I'd wager it would most likely be the same for other objects.

By customizable, I was thinking something like:

Use color coded frob shader for

  • Everything [  ]
    • Loot [ X ]
    • NPCs [  ]
    • Random Objects [  ]

I suppose one could have more versions of the shader, so the player might get to choose from the current one, something in between (like stronger white outline for everything) and the extreme version with the color coding.

Edited by roygato
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I haven't seen any suggestions that NPCs specifically will have their own colour. It wouldn't serve any purpose — everyone can tell the difference between an NPC and a junk object.

The only suggestions for colour coding have been loot vs other objects, and so far this has been nothing more than discussion, with no actual implementation as far as I know.

Of course all the colours will be customisable, but it might take the form of cvars rather than explicit menu items.

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5 hours ago, OrbWeaver said:

I haven't seen any suggestions that NPCs specifically will have their own colour.

I thought I had gone insane and made it up, but there was this at least.

On 5/31/2021 at 11:19 PM, MirceaKitsune said:

I wonder though if maybe the color should depend on the type of entity being frobbed. Like green for doors, gold for loot, blue for in-world decorations you can move around, etc.

I guess when I saw the blue-tinted NPCs and the gold-tinted loot, I figured that was the direction this was going. But if not, then nevermind. :awesome: And I agree, it would be pointless. If it'll be just between loot and other stuff, getting to color customize sounds good.

Edited by roygato
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Finally gave the latest dev snapshot a try and decided to look at this. I honestly love what I'm seeing! Also I'm on board with the default white color... I'd decrease the intensity / alpha just a little, keep it color neutral otherwise.

I have only one problem with the effect: It shows in front of other objects and there's no occlusion. This can look weird... for instance light switches show through their socket and you can see the outline of the normally hidden bottom of the lever. Is it possible to make it render on top of the model being highlighted, but still occluded by other geometry?

dividing_2021-06-13_17_30_40.thumb.jpg.ca962f5c7737a877726cc5ed486da901.jpg

 

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2 minutes ago, MirceaKitsune said:

Finally gave the latest dev snapshot a try and decided to look at this. I honestly love what I'm seeing! Also I'm on board with the default white color... I'd decrease the intensity / alpha just a little, keep it color neutral otherwise.

I have only one problem with the effect: It shows in front of other objects and there's no occlusion. This can look weird... for instance light switches show through their socket and you can see the outline of the normally hidden bottom of the lever. Is it possible to make it render on top of the model being highlighted, but still occluded by other geometry?

dividing_2021-06-13_17_30_40.thumb.jpg.ca962f5c7737a877726cc5ed486da901.jpg

 

Set r_frobIgnoreDepth = "0"

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29 minutes ago, cabalistic said:

Sort of... you can set r_frobIgnoreDepth to 0, however, this increases rendering cost, and it does not exactly look great in all instances.

Thanks. I had to revert to latest TDM release due to other issues, might try this again later once the latest dev snapshot starts working right on my OS. I'm tempted to cast a vote for disabling r_frobIgnoreDepth by default... if the performance cost is significant and it can end up looking worse, I must at least test it more before having a definitive opinion on that.

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I fixed the mouse capturing issue and am back on latest dev, thanks again cabalistic for the help! Testing with "r_frobIgnoreDepth 0" I can indeed see the annoyances: Doors as well as drawers only have their outline showing on some sides, it becomes hidden when they perfectly touch the frame and its edges cover the item. Further more they flicker in and out of existence as you move around and change angles which looks very wrong.

What would most likely work is customizing it per item: No depth test for the outlines of doors and drawers and other entities integrated in world geometry, yes for buttons and movable objects and other geometry independent actors.

This could be set via spawnarg on the root entities... an arg to customize the color was already desirable. An entity could have the options "frob_color 1 1 1 0.5" to change the color / alpha of its highlight, plus now "frob_depth 1" to decide if it shows in front of everything or represents an object meant to be hidden by surfaces. It should offer the best results.

Edited by MirceaKitsune
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Found a little bug worth bringing up: Whenever I highlight a door its doorhandle will also flash the outline for a split second. The effect only lasts for one or a few frames after which only the door is highlighted as is proper, but it's noticeable enough to see the handle blinking when you first look at the door.

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I hadn't looked at dev builds until yesterday.  First thing I noted, of course, was the new frob highlight.  I like it.  A lot.

Several frobables that didn't show up before are now clearly shown.  An irongate.ase frobable that was difficult to see or even find thru' all the fence gaps is now clearly shown.  A quick check through my whole map found nothing but improved visuals and gameplay.  It makes it easier to select and pick up entities, esp. when some are close together.  

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Found an edge case:

When multiple things (i.e. doors) have a common bind parent (i.e. a carriage), they all highlight together even though they don't have any direct relationship to each other. Maybe common highlighting should only be for entities that are bound to each other?

Sometimes you need to bind doors to something, for example if you want them to move on a rotated axis or if you're making a vehicle.

This happens in a test map I posted to the dev forums today ("Fog obscures transparent textures").

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  • 1 month later...

Found my own edge case: The movable entity atdm:moveable_gear_metal_fancy (models/darkmod/mechanical/gears/gear_metal_fancy.ase) has a square overlay around the round gear which looks kinda wrong. It take it this has to do with the highlight using the collision model rather than the visual mesh... might be a good idea to disable that if possible.

testing_2021-07-24_01_25_51.thumb.jpg.c265596d397bc018c9b74b6c50e67ff8.jpg

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 8/8/2021 at 4:28 PM, stgatilov said:

The latter one includes the main menu GUI changes, which will be included in all future dev builds too.

Still no option to disable the new frob outlines. Can you please add this? It shouldn't be to hard as there is already a cvar for this...

Edited by Dragofer
Moving a larger discussion of an experimental new feature from the dev builds to its own thread here.
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2 hours ago, wesp5 said:

Still no option to disable the new frob outlines. Can you please add this? It shouldn't be to hard as there is already a cvar for this...

Yes, it shouldn't be hard. We are first asking that players and developers test the frob color settings to see if an ideal or agreeable new default

can be found, here is my current configuration:

 

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38 minutes ago, nbohr1more said:

Yes, it shouldn't be hard. We are first asking that players and developers test the frob color settings to see if an ideal or agreeable new default

can be found, here is my current configuration:

Good that you are still working on this. I tried your configuration and it's still a complete immersion killer for me. Not only the technical look, also the artefacts if you e.g. look at a door from the side. So whatever you end up with, please provide an option to turn it off again :)!

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  • nbohr1more changed the title to [ 2.10 ] New Frob Shader

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