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Clip Textures on Entities - Functional? Best Choice for Frob Control?


Geep
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Here's an interesting question. If you apply a clip texture, like monsterclip, to a non-brush entity, does it/should it act like a clip in-game? Certainly, DR filtering treats it as just like any other clip object.

This arose in the context of thinking about atdm:target_set_frobable, and whether mappers will need to deploy it "defensively" and more widely if the new 2.10-dev frob highlight default is not changed. There is no special texture for a target_set_frobable, and a clip texture is traditionally used. In the wiki "Containers, Chests, etc.", Fidcal said:

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In addition, the above prefabs all have a atdm:target_set_frobable clip brush inside to disable frobbing of loot out of a locked chest. Strictly speaking the body and lid block this anyway but it has been known at certain angles and situations depending on the item size and position to accidentally frob an item out of a closed container. So I play it safe and include the atdm:target_set_frobable. Just drag out a brush to almost fill the interior, give it clip texture and right click in ortho grid view for menu and select 'create entity' and choose: atdm:target_set_frobable entity....

Giving target_set_frobable a standard clip texture if its not actually performing that clip function (which I don't know) is misleading. Maybe NoDraw would be a better choice? Of maybe it could benefit from its own custom texture, with text, say "Frob Control"?

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Monsterclip is a special case since it only has any effect if on a worldspawn brush. The other clips simply offer collision regardless of whether they're on brushes/patches/models.

Some entities such as setfrobable make those nonsolid so that they instead act as a way of detecting which entities are within a space. I wouldn't see a need to use a different texture for these entities since you can have as many as you want in your map without inadvertently affecting other things.

I do agree it's annoying that clip entities are treated the same way as ubiquitous worldspawn monsterclip by DR filters.

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Given what you said, here's what I gather would happen for a non-brush entity (like target_set_frobable) with the 3 most popular clip textures:

  • monsterclip -> no effect on player, AI, missiles, moveables MISLEADING TEXTURE, LOOKS LIKE IT BLOCKS AI IN DR
  • clip -> blocks player & AI, not missiles. BLOCKS PLAYER FROM ENTERING TRUNK IF USED WITHIN. IS THAT A BUG (makes frobbing contents harder) OR A FEATURE?
  • player -> blocks player, not AI, missiles

If target_set_frobable was expanded from its traditional use within chests and drawers, to be used as invisible walls to only block frobbing, then none of these sound ideal.

That's why I was considering NoDraw or a new Frob Control texture.

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31 minutes ago, Geep said:

If target_set_frobable was expanded from its traditional use within chests and drawers, to be used as invisible walls to only block frobbing, then none of these sound ideal.

I'm not aware of instances of target_setfrobable acting as an invisible wall. For example, what I did in Down by the Riverside to stop the player from carrying bodies on his shoulder into the next phase was to place a large target_setfrobable brush (textured with clip) in the room that fires the moment the teleportation is triggered, making everything in the room unfrobable. The brush didn't prevent entry to the room.

They can only control frobbing by being triggered when the player is in a position where he should/shouldn't be able to frob the items, by making all items within their volume frobable or not.

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What I imagined, and this might not be true, is that you wouldn't be able to frob through an (untriggered) target_set_frobable to something frobable on the other side.

What I am looking for an invisible shield to stop frobbing (and that would not itself highlight) but not block anything else.

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I've seen froblock entities, usually forming chest bodies. Maybe that's what was meant in the other thread with entities that block frobbing through them?

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The thing about "froblock", which I guess should be parsed as "frob lock" rather than "frob block", is that, in addition to having a lock, it is ordinarily frobable/highlightable. So it's not exactly what's needed either.

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At least when it comes to objects inside containers, it was always easier for me to just set them to hide 0 and use target links from openable element. Since the problem is with ignoring geometry when tracing frob entities, adding more geometry doesn't seem like a solution to me. Making objects invisible until container is open works every time.

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I'm more concerned with the situation where containers are not involved. Either the frob is happening through a wall where you don't want it to, or it's happening through a moveable where you don't want it to. I agree that adding more geometry isn't great as a solution, but setting up triggering to unhide an object in such cases seems like no fun either.

I'd rather have some spawnarg I could set on anything, say, "frobshield 1", that would render it impervious to frobbing of anything behind it that you can't see. Even if the 2.10 player had frob highlighting with depth turned on.

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