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Beta testing 2.10


stgatilov
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Because I need to? Mapping vs playtesting purposes. Anyway, after further testing today the ambient lights thing is just due to an old .cfg. I have no idea which cvar makes it happen, I did a .cfg comparison and didn't see anything obvious, but I guess it doesn't matter if deleting the file fixes it.

The graphics breaking is specifically a 2.08 -> 2.09 bug and I've reported it HERE. There is another 2.08 -> 2.09 bug that I found regarding material stages that I've also reported HERE. There is a 2.10 hitch with the loading screens in King of Diamonds, but I'll take that to the appropriate thread or message stgatilov directly about it.

I've ran through Cole Hurst so far and I plan on playing at least a couple more FMs, so far so good as far as beta testing goes. Bug hunting is fun.

My FMs: The King of Diamonds (2016) | Visit my Mapbook thread sometimes! | Read my tutorial on Image-Based Lighting Workflows for TDM!

 

 

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I'll admit that the old frob, through material stages, looks a teensy bit better than the shader version. The new frob tends to bleach out the shadows on the highlighted object. All the same, I see there are some graphical glitches now. This is the female guard from Sotha's Deadeye.

This is with r_newFrob 1, it looks normal.

deadeye_2022-01-01_20_36_03.thumb.jpg.0b00b5fda35bc6f5db8e76f165c1e720.jpg

 

This is with r_newFrob 0, the current default. The pants become a solid color on highlight and her face becomes glossy purple.deadeye_2022-01-01_20_36_12.thumb.jpg.ca01a097e28b5482941997d96fc22b4c.jpg

 

Maybe some material definitions that made the old frob work properly were already deleted? Or not restored? My opinion above nonwithstanding, I think the new frob (outline included) looks just fine, and I voted as such in the poll thread, but it's a democracy and all that jazz.

Edited by Spooks
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My FMs: The King of Diamonds (2016) | Visit my Mapbook thread sometimes! | Read my tutorial on Image-Based Lighting Workflows for TDM!

 

 

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On 12/23/2021 at 11:18 PM, Dragofer said:

I've noticed that I can see the edges of light volumes as sparkly lines now - this is taken from a recent test map:

prints_2021-12-24_00_15_27.thumb.jpg.c2b031a760c2bc99168ac8ed1d91f979.jpg

And this is m y darkmod.cfg (pretty much the one that the tdm_installer.exe gives me after updating to beta02): Darkmod.cfg

By the way, I noticed that these starry lines along the light volume boundary become more noticeable at low anisotropy filter values and invisible at 16x.

16x anisotropy:

camera_2022-01-08_19_05_25.thumb.jpg.02be487d84d5cf8ddb5e57880546adcc.jpg

1x anisotropy:

camera_2022-01-08_19_05_22.thumb.jpg.5d14dcb7236733113dff66db1da98b31.jpg

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23 minutes ago, Wellingtoncrab said:

Are either the new frob highlight or outline going to be on by default in the 2.10 release or have the features been dropped? I was surprised to see the old highlight on by default - does this mean all new materials should still include the frob highlight stage?

 

Players have been offering negative feedback on the new change so it is likely that you will still need to include the frob stages.

That said, I urge people to test the new "black outline" options ( r_frobOutlinePreset 5 and 6 ) which are much more subtle and enhance visibility in both bright and dark scenes.

 

briarwood_manor_2021-12.thumb.jpg.2f71676dee94dbf330b6c95ad97e5b96.jpg

lstl_2021-12.thumb.jpg.60775f28349b60cdf50253af964194dd.jpg

newjob_2021.thumb.jpg.ef4652917cf0f4b27fed30a401e024af.jpg

 

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3 hours ago, nbohr1more said:

Players have been offering negative feedback on the new change so it is likely that you will still need to include the frob stages.

That said, I urge people to test the new "black outline" options ( r_frobOutlinePreset 5 and 6 ) which are much more subtle and enhance visibility in both bright and dark scenes.

I just have been trying out both of those and r_frobOutlinePreset 5 looks exactly like the original highlight, so this could be used. I also like the black outline, because it fits much better to the atmosphere of TDM! Maybe we should do another poll including only these two? It would indeed be a shame if all the related work would be wasted...

Edited by wesp5
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I didn't read the previous posts, but what happened to me in the current build #9648 was

  • After downloading a mission ingame, the game restarts, then I can choose the mission in the new mission screen. However what was very confusing / hidden was how to start this mission. It took me about 10 seconds to realize that I need to click the small "select mission" button at the bottom. This is a huge source of error / frustration! My recommendation is to write "start mission" and also make the button more prominent by putting it on more upwards on top of the mission list and slightly bigger in size.
  • After changing the video settings I was going to the tab for "languages" and clicked on "German". Then my screen stayed black while playing the music. After hitting the Esc key once the screen menu came back, but most option texts were invisible until I hovered them with my mouse. I closed the game and opened it again - then everything worked. I am using borderless window mode.
Edited by SeriousToni

"Einen giftigen Trank aus Kräutern und Wurzeln für die närrischen Städter wollen wir brauen." - Text aus einem verlassenen Heidenlager

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13 minutes ago, boissiere said:

Build 9648 is not the latest build. I think you need to retry with beta build 210-03 - the language change problem has definitely been fixed.

Yep, should be build 9771

beta210-03 (rev 16421-9771)

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23 hours ago, Wellingtoncrab said:

Are either the new frob highlight or outline going to be on by default in the 2.10 release or have the features been dropped? I was surprised to see the old highlight on by default - does this mean all new materials should still include the frob highlight stage?

Yes, it means that materials should still include frob stages.
It is very unlikely that this problem will be resolved in 2.10.

22 hours ago, Wellingtoncrab said:

That is I think a shame. I would reiterate my emphatic support for the feature. I see criticism largely of how it looks but little in the way of understanding of the problems the new system addressed.

I don't like to discuss frob-highlight in generic beta testing thread, since I know it can generate a lot of text 😥

Quote

This was in my opinion a very creator friendly feature and maybe if players can’t come around to the new highlight maybe they can come around to the fact people need to make content for the game, and the easier this is to do the more content they will have to play.

We tried the outline approach, but it seems to be wrong way in terms of visual appearance.
Players did the right thing and when they voted that outline does not belong to this game, don't blame them.

An alternative approach is to retain material frob stages as they are, but add some default highlighting (which should work in 99% of cases). As far as I understand, it will also remove the mapper's pain that you talk about, but without affecting visual appearance.

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14 minutes ago, stgatilov said:

I don't like to discuss frob-highlight in generic beta testing thread, since I know it can generate a lot of text 😥

Sorry!

15 minutes ago, stgatilov said:

Players did the right thing and when they voted that outline does not belong to this game, don't blame them.

I hope that’s not what came across in my post. I don’t blame anyone for having a subjective opinion on the appearance of the frob highlight. 

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57 minutes ago, stgatilov said:

Players did the right thing and when they voted that outline does not belong to this game, don't blame them.

You might remember that I was completely against the outlines that you offered in the poll, but you never mentioned the black one! I think you need to redo the poll with that included.

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6 hours ago, boissiere said:

Build 9648 is not the latest build. I think you need to retry with beta build 210-03 - the language change problem has definitely been fixed.

Thank you - this is true. I was confusing the dev section up in the installer with the a little bit hidden beta section. Thanks. Language problem solved!  :)

"Einen giftigen Trank aus Kräutern und Wurzeln für die närrischen Städter wollen wir brauen." - Text aus einem verlassenen Heidenlager

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On 1/9/2022 at 9:19 PM, SeriousToni said:

After downloading a mission ingame, the game restarts, then I can choose the mission in the new mission screen. However what was very confusing / hidden was how to start this mission. It took me about 10 seconds to realize that I need to click the small "select mission" button at the bottom. This is a huge source of error / frustration! My recommendation is to write "start mission" and also make the button more prominent by putting it on more upwards on top of the mission list and slightly bigger in size.

The game doesn't restart after you download a mission. The game restarts after you click the "select mission" button, after that you get the main menu where you can start the mission.

So with "select mission" you're selecting the mission as your active mission, not starting it.

Edited by datiswous
better wording
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8 hours ago, datiswous said:

The game doesn't restart after you download a mission. The game restarts after you click the "select mission" button, after that you get the main menu where you can start the mission.

So with "select mission" you're selecting the mission as your active mission, not starting it.

The point was that it's not clear on first sight how to proceed after having downloaded a new mission. It isn't solved by explaining the process here on the forum either. However if I'm the only one having this problem I can live with that. But I can imagine many first time players will also scratch their heads. I was giving this feedback because the change log said this process has been optimized now. IMHO its not :)

Edited by SeriousToni

"Einen giftigen Trank aus Kräutern und Wurzeln für die närrischen Städter wollen wir brauen." - Text aus einem verlassenen Heidenlager

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7 hours ago, MayheM said:

The lamps on the wall look bright on Full Moon Fever. Is it supposed to be like that?

fever_2022-01-12_06.29.28.jpg

Those lamps have an unlit skin but if the mapper does not use the "entity that includes it" and simply places

the model then this will be the result. We should probably ask permission from authors to fix things like this for all our

missions in the database but then again that is a lot of work and we would instead want to see

players petition the mission authors to fix it ;)

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2 hours ago, SeriousToni said:

I was giving this feedback because the change log said this process has been optimized now. IMHO its not

Yeah strange enough I found it instantly logical. Although previously it was "Install Mission" instead of "Select mission".

I would sugest to change it back to "Install Mission" (which is also logical) to make it look more logical for users coming from 2.09. In 2.11 the name could be changed to Select mission, since users are then already used to the changes to the gui.

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11 minutes ago, datiswous said:

I would sugest to change it back to "Install Mission" (which is also logical) to make it look more logical for users coming from 2.09. In 2.11 the name could be changed to Select mission, since users are then already used to the changes to the gui.

As far as I remember, the wording was changed because "install" usually means downloading something, or doing some nontrivial os-dependent work. Nothing like that is done, you just select the mission, and restart engine in order to e.g. update main menu GUI.

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10 minutes ago, nbohr1more said:

We should probably ask permission from authors to fix things like this for all our

missions in the database but then again that is a lot of work and we would instead want to see

players petition the mission authors to fix it

Maybe have a topic (or better: wiki page) that indexes such problems and the fix for it. So when you encounter it in a mission, you can revert mappers to the specific fix, so it's easy for them to apply. I was actually going to ask how to do it myself since I couldn't figure out how to fix this specific issue in my own testmap.

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Just now, stgatilov said:

As far as I remember, the wording was changed because "install" usually means downloading something, or doing some nontrivial os-dependent work. Nothing like that is done, you just select the mission, and restart engine in order to e.g. update main menu GUI.

I agree with the logic behind the change, but also some other things are changed in the interface, like the location of that button, so I can see users get confused, but I don't know if it's enough of a problem to do something about this.

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