My weird ideas for a mission

[Nort]

 

It takes a long time to make a mission, at least if you want quality, and I am known for abandoning projects all the time.

However, if I did ever finish a mission, it wouldn't be a typical one.

First of all, I wouldn't give you any weapons, or even a blackjack. ...and if you so much as got spotted, you would fail the mission. ...and you wouldn't even be able to steal loot. ...so you wouldn't be a killer, you wouldn't be a thief - you would just be a burglar, I guess. I actually don't like crime sims - I just like to sneak. The mission would pretty much just be a walking sim, but if I could come up with some complex mechanical puzzles, I wouldn't mind a sneaky form of Myst.

Would there be a story? Maybe. Maybe not. I feel that stories just take away from the player experience. They wouldn't even know where they were, and would have to figure it out as they explored. ...and it would probably partly be a horror map, so I'd probably have you sneak around in the tunnels of some spider hive, evading roaming spider patrols.

Maybe there wouldn't even be an objective. Maybe I'd just start the player next to the door leading out of it, and you were welcome to stay and hang out in my huge map, for as long as you'd like. I like atmospheric environments more than I like objectives.

I'd of course warn the player that my mission wouldn't be typical. The key to avoiding disappointment, is simply to set the right expectations beforehand.

 

[Zerg Rush]

7 hours ago, Nort said:

 

It takes a long time to make a mission, at least if you want quality, and I am known for abandoning projects all the time.

However, if I did ever finish a mission, it wouldn't be a typical one.

First of all, I wouldn't give you any weapons, or even a blackjack. ...and if you so much as got spotted, you would fail the mission. ...and you wouldn't even be able to steal loot. ...so you wouldn't be a killer, you wouldn't be a thief - you would just be a burglar, I guess. I actually don't like crime sims - I just like to sneak. The mission would pretty much just be a walking sim, but if I could come up with some complex mechanical puzzles, I wouldn't mind a sneaky form of Myst.

Would there be a story? Maybe. Maybe not. I feel that stories just take away from the player experience. They wouldn't even know where they were, and would have to figure it out as they explored. ...and it would probably partly be a horror map, so I'd probably have you sneak around in the tunnels of some spider hive, evading roaming spider patrols.

Maybe there wouldn't even be an objective. Maybe I'd just start the player next to the door leading out of it, and you were welcome to stay and hang out in my huge map, for as long as you'd like. I like atmospheric environments more than I like objectives.

I'd of course warn the player that my mission wouldn't be typical. The key to avoiding disappointment, is simply to set the right expectations beforehand.

 

This is why I like TDM so much, because of the variety of genres it can have. Naturally the main one is stealth, but all other genres are also found among the missions, FPS, RPG, adventure, puzzle, survival horror, mystery, room / prison escape, hidden objects, platform ......, even a Tetris game (Builder Blocks ). 

The limit is only the imagination of the mission creator.

[wesp5]

Maybe this is just an attempt at trolling, but your mission would include everything I do not like about TDM, so good luck.

Edited May 22, 2022 by wesp5

[Zerg Rush]

13 minutes ago, wesp5 said:

Maybe this is just an attempt at trolling, but your mission would include everything I do not like about TDM, so good luck.

Everyone has preferences in games, I don't like all missions equally either, but I don't know until I've tried them. If not, there are over 100 others.

There is even already a mission similar to the one proposed. Dead Drunk, I certainly don't like it that much, but not because of the challenge, but because of the too monotonous environment.

Edited May 22, 2022 by Zerg Rush

[ChronA]

This made me imagine a mission where the player character is a perv trying to sneak into a bath house. Thanks .

Also now that I think about it, that exact FM almost certainly already exists...

[Zerg Rush]

Yes, but there can even be missions with erotic content, why not? You can always differentiate in the difficulty of using the Family save version or not, if you want, as in the Stolen Heart mission.

[Nort]

2 hours ago, ChronA said:

This made me imagine a mission where the player character is a perv trying to sneak into a bath house. Thanks .

Also now that I think about it, that exact FM almost certainly already exists...

I wouldn't mind playing as a simple perv, compared to playing the usual killers in games, or thieves for that matter. My main problem would just be that arousal from various sights, would distract from gameplay, and so maybe playing a romantic stalker would be better. ...or a guy being attracted to horses in a stable, would be pretty funny. It could be one of those "Rosebud" moments, where the player starts off the mission saying that tonight he's going to sneak into a mansion and declare his undeniable love to "Rosalina", and the player would be lead to believe that it would be a human woman, only for additional objectives leading the player into the mansion's stable...

Edited May 22, 2022 by Nort

[Nort]

7 hours ago, wesp5 said:

Maybe this is just an attempt at trolling, but your mission would include everything I do not like about TDM, so good luck.

Like I said: The key to making an odd mission, is to be sure to describe that it's at least going to be odd, in the download description. That way everybody's happy.

[ChronA]

4 hours ago, Nort said:

I wouldn't mind playing as a simple perv, compared to playing the usual killers in games, or thieves for that matter.

This is true. On pretty much any mansion or city level, chances are you will be pilfering some impoverished servant's or trades-person's life savings in order to meet the loot goal; money they probably need to feed their families. But it is treated no differently than stealing some oligarch's silverware or finding some gems in a cave. There is a bit of a moral double standard at work, considering how much Thief and all its derivatives revolve around themes of retributive justice and avoiding indiscriminate carnage.

It would be interesting if more FMs played with the concept of moral forbearance. Maybe have an optional objective on expert to not harm any innocents, and stealing the wrong bits of loot would make you fail it (until you uncover evidence of wrongdoing).

 

Anyway, I personally appreciate missions that aims to be like Myst but with stealth. (Although, for my money, Riven is the one to emulate in terms of sublime puzzle walking simulators). To me, knockouts and ticking up the loot counter aren't that rewarding compared to the pure joy of exploration and discoverable storytelling. It might actually be easier to make a really fun level without having to worry about loot placement or combat balancing. Plot-wise there is a lot of well trodden ground for detective scenarios and escape-the-house/cave type thrillers in that mold. A rom-com (or ero-com) would actually be a really different and interesting framing device for such an FM. (But it would have to be released on Valentines day! That's just the law.)

Of course you should just do what you want to do. Take the ideas and advice of the community for what you can get out of them, but in the end always make your FM (or any other hobby project) for yourself first. That way at minimum one person will always be happy with it (even if it is never finished). 

Edited May 22, 2022 by ChronA
grammars bes hardful

[Zerg Rush]

Yes, maybe a pure mystery exploring game is a possibility with a nice environment. But not like, f.example Dear Esther. Yes, nice environment and a philosophic story, but also BOOOOORING like no other. Apart of walking in a certainly very nice island and hearing a strange story in off, ocurres absolutly nothing until the end, No interaction with objects, no running, jumpin or climbing, only wasd. I downloaded this game some time ago in a giveaway and only no deleted iit, because of using it for screenshots whic I use for Wallpapers.

But i think, combining it with a real challenge with some stealth and some AI, it can be a great mission.

Dear Esther Walkthrough

Edited May 22, 2022 by Zerg Rush

[Nort]

2 minutes ago, Zerg Rush said:

Yes, maybe a pure mystery exploring game is a possibility with a nice environment. But not like, f.example Dear Esther. Yes, nice environment and a philosophic story, but also BOOOOORING like no other. Apart of walking in a certainly very nice island and hearing a strange story in off, ocurres absolutly nothing until the end. I downloaded this game some time ago in a giveaway and only no deleted iit, because of using it for screenshots whic I use for Wallpapers.

But i think, combining it with a real challenge with some stealth and some AI, it can be a great mission.

Dear Esther Walkthrough

Dear Esther really did a disservice to walking sims. It put walking sims on the map, and everyone agrees that it was incredibly beautiful, but at the same time it was incredibly boring, and it had a plot which was randomized and nonsensical on purpose. It took a couple of walking sims after that, to repair the genre's reputation.

You could say that Myst is a partial walking sim, and Penumbra and Amnesia. Some people play Silent Hill as mostly running and avoidance sims, while the later Deux Ex games had achievements for simply walking past every area without engaging at all. Excitement isn't actually created by the game mechanics, but by the situation and the environments.

I even argue that a guard knocked out, is a guard simply removed from the gameplay value. Once even a maid servant, can't be knocked out anymore, she could add so much more to the situation. The maid in my map, is currently tending to the stove, doing the dishes, putting the plates onto shelves, and that's just the start of it. Why knock all of that beautiful artificial life out halfway through the game?

Sorry for ranting.

[Zerg Rush]

Right, knock out is a fail of stealth, but often can't be avoid, due to the story and nature of TDM. But there are some ethical aspects I don't like so, not import me to steal  all the loot possible in a house of a rich and greedy usurer or a corrupt bishop, but that I must do it in the house of poor people, from some humble servants, or from beggars to complete the loot limit isn't so nice. I also avoid if possible to knock them out, not so with the guards where I don't have problems to blackjack them when needed.

[wesp5]

4 hours ago, Nort said:

Like I said: The key to making an odd mission, is to be sure to describe that it's at least going to be odd, in the download description. That way everybody's happy.

I have nothing against an odd mission, but you said no weapons, no loot, no story and instant fail if you are detected. Also you talk about it being like a walking simulator. So basically you are removing a lot of gameplay choices for nothing to gain than it being odd!

[Nort]

31 minutes ago, wesp5 said:

I have nothing against an odd mission, but you said no weapons, no loot, no story and instant fail if you are detected. Also you talk about it being like a walking simulator. So basically you are removing a lot of gameplay choices for nothing to gain than it being odd!

Okay, so maybe I'd describe it as "Walking sim." or "Weaponless." instead. There can still be plenty of choices regarding what route to take - I'm not just going to make the map a long corridor. I more envision it as a sandbox playground. It's just that your playmates are mandatory.

[Zerg Rush]

Fur this, Dear Esther ma be a good inspiration, naturally with some more challengs andcontent,. A good game must be more than only a nice environment, for this is better to use the default level of the Unity engine, also a walksimm in a island with nothing more. That isn't the sense of TDM. I think

[jaxa]

You can make whatever you want.

https://www.thedarkmod.com/missiondetails/?internalName=swing1_2

[Zerg Rush]

8 hours ago, jaxa said:

You can make whatever you want.

https://www.thedarkmod.com/missiondetails/?internalName=swing1_2

Yes, good old Swing, good jumping and climbing training mission, if you don't get seasick easily

[Zerg Rush]

14 hours ago, Nort said:

Okay, so maybe I'd describe it as "Walking sim." or "Weaponless." instead. There can still be plenty of choices regarding what route to take - I'm not just going to make the map a long corridor. I more envision it as a sandbox playground. It's just that your playmates are mandatory.

A good soundtrack also is important. Remember that Pixabay has a huge catalogue of royalty free music (every genre), which you can download compleetly free and use even in commercial projects (CC licenses and public domain)

https://pixabay.com/music/

Adding Pixabay in your search engine list of your browser

https://pixabay.com/images/search/?q=%s

(Images by default,but also illustrations, vectors, music, sound effects and videos)

Edited May 23, 2022 by Zerg Rush

[jaxa]

2 hours ago, Zerg Rush said:

Yes, good old Swing, good jumping and climbing training mission, if you don't get seasick easily

I can only imagine what playing that mission in VR would feel like.

[Zerg Rush]

Well, at least no stealth skill needed 

[Nort]

4 hours ago, Zerg Rush said:

A good soundtrack also is important. Remember that Pixabay has a huge catalogue of royalty free music (every genre), which you can download compleetly free and use even in commercial projects (CC licenses and public domain)

https://pixabay.com/music/

Adding Pixabay in your search engine list of your browser

https://pixabay.com/images/search/?q=%s

(Images by default,but also illustrations, vectors, music, sound effects and videos)

Thank you for always being so helpful.

However, as I said at the beginning of this thread, I don't actually expect to finish any missions. It's sad but true. For me, finishing a mission would take years of work, and usually I break down before that. It's the progress that's a delight for me, and the music I use, is the normal ambience music, which I actually turn down to 5 ("-55") decibels, so that I won't get bored with it.

 If I'd ever release a mission, I'd probably keep the old music, but play it at maybe 15 ("-45") decibels. It's enough to just barely tickle the recognition of the tracks, for the players, in a subliminal way, but not loud enough for them to groan and roll their eyes over it.

[OrbWeaver]

I don't recommend changing the volume of ambient music in a specific mission, because this is something that is supposed to be under the player's control (as chosen by the volume slider in preferences). If you change the volume in the map itself, all it means is that the player will adjust their own volume slider to compensate, so you're just annoying the player without really obtaining any "artistic freedom" for the effort.

Ideally all ambients would have a carefully matched volume level, so players would know exactly how loud the music is going to be based on their volume control setting. However we are a long way from that ideal. It is very easy to add a custom ambient and make it far too loud, particularly if it's music you like and/or your own in-game ambient volume is set to a lower level than default.

[Zerg Rush]

Ambient music is an important part of games and movies, it can change and improve the content in a dramatic manner. Not the same a scene in a catacomb with zombies and skeleton guards with liftmusic or one from a Buster Keaton movie.

I think that it is less aquestion of personal tastes, than a cuestion to adapt sounds and music to the correpondin content.

Because of this I mencioned the source, because it isn't so easy to find good music without copyright and usable without costs, important for a free game like TDM.

Edited May 23, 2022 by Zerg Rush

[Nort]

34 minutes ago, Zerg Rush said:

Ambient music is an important part of games and movies, it can change and improve the content in a dramatic manner. Not the same a scene in a catacomb with zombies and skeleton guards with liftmusic or one from a Buster Keaton movie.

I think that it is less aquestion of personal tastes, than a cuestion to adapt sounds and music to the correpondin content.

Because of this I mencioned the source, because it isn't so easy to find good music without copyright and usable without costs, important for a free game like TDM.

I get what you're saying, and I do have a tiny bit of music in one of my maps, but there's also a charm in portraying a part of the world, let it speak for itself, and then let the player decide what to feel about it - let the player explore his own emotions instead of being told what to feel. Sometimes music just feels like an uninvited teenager sperging out.

You could argue that music would make any map feel less dull, and I'm not going to pretend that my map doesn't have dull parts. ...but I actually kind of like it dull and uncaring. I guess it's because I'm old, and my ticker can no longer handle excitement - I don't know. I also listen to podcasts while I play, and then the music just gets in the way.

...but I get what you're saying too.

[Zerg Rush]

I'm not saying that there should be a soundtrack permanently, I'm just saying that it's a necessary art of choosing scenes and situations with the right music. For this it is necessary to have where to choose the corresponding music and have a sufficient repository. Always using the same music in every game is somewhat tiring.
I remember very well one of my favorite missions, Requiem, with a sublime version of Beata Viscera by Perotin, which invited you to stay in the cathedral until it was over.