Fan Mission: In Plain Sight by Frost_Salamander (2022/08/07)

[MirceaKitsune]

23 hours ago, Frost_Salamander said:

That was a critique during beta, so I went around and opened most of the openable ones.  Was it really still an issue?

Not that badly, sorry if I'm overthinking it. It's mostly that the same window models are used for static decorations that go into nothingness, as well as interact windows connecting buildings. What did help is functional windows were left semi-open by default so you could see them, that made it better.

[Frost_Salamander]

6 minutes ago, MirceaKitsune said:

Not that badly, sorry if I'm overthinking it. It's mostly that the same window models are used for static decorations that go into nothingness, as well as interact windows connecting buildings. What did help is functional windows were left semi-open by default so you could see them, that made it better.

nah no worries, I'm probably the one overthinking it.  Any and all feedback is appreciated, just want to make sure I understand it!

[datiswous]

I found it cool that if you knock out someone, dump him in the water, he will die after a while and you fail the mission. In a lot of missions this does not happen.

[MirceaKitsune]

36 minutes ago, datiswous said:

I found it cool that if you knock out someone, dump him in the water, he will die after a while and you fail the mission. In a lot of missions this does not happen.

IIRC that's a default effect. Unconscious AI dying in water due to drowning, if the objective is set up right it should pick up on it. Forgot if AI know how to swim or even living AI instantly die if they touch deep water.

[datiswous]

12 minutes ago, MirceaKitsune said:

Forgot if AI know how to swim or even living AI instantly die if they touch deep water.

Well I've seen in multiple missions that when ai is knocked out you can do whatever you want with it, it will not die (except for killing). 

Edited November 13, 2022 by datiswous

[datiswous]

I can't figure out how to open this (and I think therefore ending the mission):

Spoiler

Edit: I found the solution in this thread.

Edited November 30, 2022 by datiswous

[datiswous]

Btw. @Frost_Salamander fantastic mission! Didn't expect it to be this big.

A small gripe is that often in rooms there's not enough space, so you get stuck when you open things, or ai have no space to properly fall after knockout, etc. I guess maybe you first build rough rooms and later fill them, but then if space is cramped you can't easy fix that.

Another thing I noticed is that there are big jumps in performance, for me between 30fps and 160fps.

Here some screenshots with comments about minor things I encountered.

[Frost_Salamander]

7 hours ago, datiswous said:

Btw. @Frost_Salamander fantastic mission! Didn't expect it to be this big.

A small gripe is that often in rooms there's not enough space, so you get stuck when you open things, or ai have no space to properly fall after knockout, etc. I guess maybe you first build rough rooms and later fill them, but then if space is cramped you can't easy fix that.

Another thing I noticed is that there are big jumps in performance, for me between 30fps and 160fps.

Here some screenshots with comments about minor things I encountered.

thanks for the feedback - always useful.  The small rooms/cramped feel is somewhat intentional.  If playability issues were mentioned in beta I likely would have made changes, but I don't recall any around that (but I get what you're saying).

Regarding the performance drops, it would be handy if you can remember what areas they were in and your hardware setup?  I'm aware of a couple of areas where it might drop on lesser hardware.

[datiswous]

I think they were often scenes with volumetric lighting. I can't recall precisely. It was not problematic. Performance in most scenes was actually very good considering how good everything looks. But I could sometimes turn the view around and get a drop by 100fps.

Here are my system specs:

 

[Frost_Salamander]

19 hours ago, datiswous said:

I think they were often scenes with volumetric lighting. I can't recall precisely. It was not problematic. Performance in most scenes was actually very good considering how good everything looks. But I could sometimes turn the view around and get a drop by 100fps.

Here are my system specs:

 

ok thanks.  I definitely didn't get any reports of 100 FPS frame drops in beta or since release.  Sounds like I'll need to get you to beta test my next FM 

[datiswous]

3 hours ago, Frost_Salamander said:

ok thanks.  I definitely didn't get any reports of 100 FPS frame drops in beta or since release.  Sounds like I'll need to get you to beta test my next FM 

Yeah sorry I wasn't around then. But glad I played it.

[lowenz]

TDM 2.11

*Blackjaking this guy=instant kill=mission fail:

*This door can't be closed IF an NPC got first stuck there - opening it - and then st*R*uck with the blackjack (TDM issues, replaying from the savegame without the NPC stuck doens't have any issue) :

Edited February 9, 2023 by lowenz

[Frost_Salamander]

Yeah the blackjacking sitting AI killing them is a known TDM thing.  There doesn't seem to be a good workaround except not having sitting AI (or at least not in chairs with backs close to a wall).

[Xolvix]

I've had a break from TDM for a while and after the 2.11 update I decided to give this mission a go. It's pretty cool and the type of mission I like, although I found myself having a bit of a headache overworking my brain and eyes trying to scan carefully for things, and not even realizing there were secrets! What's worse, I'm nowhere near the 7000 loot optional objective (on Hard) and it feels like I'm close to the end, but tdm_show_loot seems to show the vast majority of what's missing in hidden areas which are no doubt locked away via those secrets, so no wonder I can't hit the limit. Oh well.

I still haven't finished it yet but I'm close, but I have a question:

Spoiler

There's an optional objective to find out who's stealing from Troutbeck and then place the evidence on the watch station ground floor desk. I've dumped every readable I've got and it's not triggering, which makes me think I don't have the correct evidence yet. A hint would be quite appreciated.

Anyway, good work!

[Frost_Salamander]

2 minutes ago, Xolvix said:

I've had a break from TDM for a while and after the 2.11 update I decided to give this mission a go. It's pretty cool and the type of mission I like, although I found myself having a bit of a headache overworking my brain and eyes trying to scan carefully for things, and not even realizing there were secrets! What's worse, I'm nowhere near the 7000 loot optional objective (on Hard) and it feels like I'm close to the end, but tdm_show_loot seems to show the vast majority of what's missing in hidden areas which are no doubt locked away via those secrets, so no wonder I can't hit the limit. Oh well.

I still haven't finished it yet but I'm close, but I have a question:

  Reveal hidden contents

There's an optional objective to find out who's stealing from Troutbeck and then place the evidence on the watch station ground floor desk. I've dumped every readable I've got and it's not triggering, which makes me think I don't have the correct evidence yet. A hint would be quite appreciated.

Anyway, good work!

Some of the loot is in secrets, but not all of it.  In the first post of this thread I gave hints for the secrets.

Also, a good chunk of the loot is related to one of the mission objectives, which should lead to solving your other problem.

Hint:

Spoiler

It's related the bank objective.  You need help from a certain person to complete this, and they also should have something related to the Troutbeck objective.

 

[Xolvix]

Cool thanks for that. I guess I'm not surprised that the final main area I haven't visited yet was going to the answer to my question. Took me long enough to even find it (seems like something others had issue with as well). I think I'm just more miserable I didn't find a single secret without hints.

[Jabberwocky]

After some time I've returned to TDM and I started with your FM. I'm still playing it and I really like it. Thank you for the fun.

[Frost_Salamander]

56 minutes ago, Jabberwocky said:

After some time I've returned to TDM and I started with your FM. I'm still playing it and I really like it. Thank you for the fun.

Thanks for taking the time to comment - I'm glad you like it

[vozka]

That was way bigger than I initially expected! Pretty tough too, got stuck a couple times and had to look through this thread. 

Took me 3 hours to complete and in the end I got 8400 loot, but that was after consulting the hints and finding 3/5 secrets.

One thing that frustrated me was that it was sometimes unclear where I'm supposed to be able to jump and where not. The openable window that's opposite the post office (I'm not specific in order to not spoil things, hopefully it's clear) seems like it should be reachable if you climb on the pub sign and lamp on the other side of the street, jump over and grab or jump onto the piece of the wooden beam that's sticking out, but it's not and the beam cannot be stood on or grabbed. Similar situation with the courtyard in front of lord Eton's house - when you first enter through the bottom window, it seems like you could grab the bottom of the top balcony on the left, but you cannot. 

On the other hand some of the intended jumps had quite narrow outside window sills, so falling down or not jumping far enough was very easy and frustrating. It felt like the space where you can stand up outside of a window, press forward and make a jump was rather tiny.

And another problem was that when there were window sills, they were often slightly overhanging, which was blocking me from mantling on them when crouching (I would bump into the overhang instead of mantling on top of it), without making noise. It was rather fiddly.

 

Apart from these issues which affected the smoothness of movement I had a good time. Interesting mission and not simple either. 

[Shadrach]

Loved this mission as well, it's a small area but a *lot* to discover and great atmosphere.
Some really tricky vertical bits too - I admit I had to cheat a couple times to figure out to even get up there 

In the end I figured this was a more fitting punishment to these darned republicans treasonous scum:

Spoiler

Probably better than ending up in the King's torture chambers? 
Interestingly, I got to this point *before* I found out the surprise with "Geoffrey". Turns out spooking the party with a noise arrow makes them panic, forget about the plan, raising the bars without activating the ghoul and escaping, making them easy to clobber and put in there instead 

 

Edited September 1, 2023 by Shadrach

[chakkman]

I just finished this. Nice mission. I had a few issues with it though.

Spoiler

First and foremost, the loot objective on "Hard" was too high. I very rarely have issues finding enough loot to fulfill the objective on hard/expert difficulty (can't remember a single time actually), and, I had to consult this thread, and find an additional 2 secrets to get above 7.000 gold. I think that's too high really. 6.000 or 6.500 would have been better.

Another thing were the secrets: I understand that those are supposed to be a bonus, but, finding them in this mission was too hard. I usually search every room pretty thoroughly, but, in this mission, I was merely able to find 1 out of 5 secrets. Hiding buttons so far behind drawers that they're barely visible, even when you know what you're looking far is a bit too much.

More of a "lore" and story kind of thing: I found it a bit implausible that someone from the law robs poor merchants, and basically robs them off their whole livelihood, just to stage rob in in the bank, or cover an investigation. The break in in the bank, yeah, fair enough, but, looting every single shop? I also didn't like the side mission with the beggar, and robbing the pembrokes, to leave him money on his makeshift bed. Also seemed a bit implausible to do something like that while doing an investigation.

Anyway, apart from that, I enjoyed the mission, and, looking forward to playing part 2.

[Rio_Walker]

Wow... the sheer verticality of the level makes my head spin. The fact that we can climb pipes (that I still couldn't jump up and grab, had to yoink a chair) blew my mind.

I got stuck a few times, I couldn't for the life of me discover a way to enter Smythe's apartment.
I knew it's possible to enter it, and I assumed I needed to enter it because of a few hints.

Spoiler

Maybe the readable should've read "And that awful noise in the attic" as a hint? Not just "He moved next door"

I loved extra missions. Really felt like it expanded the world. But I'm still confused about the "panic" they showed.

 

[Frost_Salamander]

1 hour ago, Rio_Walker said:

I loved extra missions. Really felt like it expanded the world. But I'm still confused about the "panic" they showed.

HI @Rio_Walker thanks for playing!

Spoiler

which readable do you mean?

and what 'panic' are you talking about?  I'm wondering if something didn't work quite right...

 

[Rio_Walker]

17 minutes ago, Frost_Salamander said:

which readable do you mean?

In the Widow's apartment, there is her diary that mentions Smythe next door. (Combine that with a Thief-ette's note and you have a hint that you need to visit him) but you can't enter his place. Since my usual MO is to snuff all the lights, I kept missing the Attic.
(Loved his stash tho)

 

 

20 minutes ago, Frost_Salamander said:

and what 'panic' are you talking about?  I'm wondering if something didn't work quite right...

"Panic" - as in, casually leaving the room =D
They didn't break or anything.
It's just... Were they expecting ME, after my predecessor failed so bad he decomposed in days? Were they expecting someone else, like half a dozen of other people that they sent letters to, and seeing me they weren't happy? Mission 2 makes it clear they didn't get far but still....

[Frost_Salamander]

11 hours ago, Rio_Walker said:

In the Widow's apartment, there is her diary that mentions Smythe next door. (Combine that with a Thief-ette's note and you have a hint that you need to visit him) but you can't enter his place. Since my usual MO is to snuff all the lights, I kept missing the Attic.
(Loved his stash tho)
 

So the widow's diary literally says:

Spoiler

"He seems to get visitors at strange hours and I've been hearing odd noises from the attic."

and the panic thing:

Spoiler

Yes the idea is that despite your sneaking around they found out about you and were expecting you and the tomb was a trap.  Sorry it wasn't obvious...

 

Edited April 6, 2024 by Frost_Salamander