Beta testing 2.11

[MirceaKitsune]

Last night I streamed Business as Usual, I noticed what may be a couple of issues with the AI myself. First was the AI spotting me in places or at times when it shouldn't have been able to, especially on the secondary (forgiving) difficulty for AI sight and hearing... I was sitting in total darkness with my lightgem at the lowest level and a guard was looking for me nearby when suddenly he noticed and attacked me out of nowhere. It's also possible for AI to have a 3 - 5 second delay in detecting touch causing big lag in noticing you... this might be a reason why I don't get how they suddenly spot me late after walking past me, I presume they might have somehow touched me but only "realized" it nearly 5 seconds later.

In addition I noticed some AI will often attack so fast their animation seemingly doesn't have time to finish... if you disturb an archer taken by surprise, an arrow may fly out of them before it feels they even had time to pull the arrow out. Last night a guard attacked and successfully hit me with his sword straight through a solid wall My stream is still on Twitch and I'll be posting it on Youtube as well, let me know if you think I'm correct and would like to inspect those moments... YT is still uploading so I might post timestamps here a bit later.

Other issue I noticed is that sometimes you may have two inventory icons overlapping on the HUD. Like at some point I selected an item, but the compass or loot icon was still showing and my lockpicks were being drawn on top. I caught this one in the stream two times, it went away after playing around with the inventory menu.

[MirceaKitsune]

Alright: Posted my stream on Youtube too and found the timestamps for all notable moments worth investigating. Hope I'm not wrong about any of those bugs and wasting anyone's time, they at least seemed suspicious and worth submitting for investigation. Oh and I say the Effy word a few times because it's fun and that hotel guard annoyed me so beware Let me know if you'd like me to move this to another thread, since we're hunting bugs for 2.11 here seemed logical.

1. https://youtu.be/bAw56sNSkJQ?t=1195 (19:55) Shows the HUD glitch. Look at the bottom-right corner of the screen: As I selected a key the compass didn't go away, the key was drawn on top of it for a second until I cycled away. I don't know what I might have done special to trigger that effect.
2. https://youtu.be/bAw56sNSkJQ?t=1677 (27:57) My first suspicious encounter with the guard: I'm trying to grab a key from him which had issues highlighting, he spots and attacks me at 28:02. My confusion is that he was walking away from me calmly on his normal patrol route, then suddenly he instantly goes to seeing me completely behind him and attacking. Do you think I got close enough to touch him during this interaction and that's what caused it? Even so it feels like a strangely delayed response.
3. https://youtu.be/bAw56sNSkJQ?t=2064 (34:24) Indeed I was in the light at this moment, but the guard's back was completely turned to me. He seemed to turn his head to the left just a bit, I believe I saw that and went to the wall to the right to counter it... this one might be normal but it still seemed odd he'd see me so fast through the back of his head.
4. https://youtu.be/bAw56sNSkJQ?t=2407 (40:07) Collision bug, may be map specific but obviously this wouldn't have been done on purpose by the mapper so maybe worth noting. I'm able to walk straight through that furnace; Even when I seem to sit on something as it clips through me, I get the wood collision sound so the furnace remains ghosted.
5. https://youtu.be/bAw56sNSkJQ?t=2721(45:21) Another weird moment with that guard. He walks down the stairs whereas I head up into the attic. Between the stairs I was standing in front of and the attic ladder there is no light, my lightgem never got bright on the way... I also didn't make any special noise I can tell. Yet despite the guard being on his way down anyway, I find him right behind me looking up and alerted once I finish climbing at 45:30. What triggered him?
6. https://youtu.be/bAw56sNSkJQ?t=2787 (46:27) Then I jumped back in the corner in front of the stair. The guard heads there, could be because he heard the noise so that's normal. The odd thing is he walks past me, heads down the stairs, then while there he suddenly goes to attacking me seconds later at 46:37. Maybe he touched me, though the distance should have been large enough as he walked past... even then why so late of a reaction?
7. https://youtu.be/bAw56sNSkJQ?t=2828 (47:08) Here I decide to stop trying and jump over the rail suspecting he might see me, him doing so is normal. Problem is that as he chases after me, he attacks as I enter the nearby room before him: Despite him being outside and the door nearly closed, I take damage straight through the door at 47:14. Feels like a limitation that could be improved with collision detection for combat, maybe something with the trace line for hits?
8. https://youtu.be/bAw56sNSkJQ?t=2879 (47:59) A repeat of the stairs incident from 46:27: I hide in the corner, the guard walks past me down the stairs seemingly far enough to avoid touching me... he waits for a few seconds then out of nowhere attacks me on sight, despite me doing nothing during that pause. He shouldn't have seen me because look at my light gem, it's always at the lowest value... also this is the forgiving difficulty which makes it all the weirder.
9. https://youtu.be/bAw56sNSkJQ?t=5359 (1:29:19) Second occurrence of the HUD bug, lockpick over the loot icon.
10. https://youtu.be/bAw56sNSkJQ?t=5884 (1:38:04) Wasn't sure if this is map specific and worth mentioning again, but that chair has no collisions. I presume it wasn't set that way on purpose by the mapper so throwing it in.

Edited December 30, 2022 by MirceaKitsune

[nbohr1more]

Please make sure that these issues only happen in 2.11. If the same things happen in 2.10 or earlier and there are no open trackers then please open new ones.

[Araneidae]

@Dragofer, I'll have to try and repeat, but it certainly sound very like what I was seeing.  Did I quickload at stage 4?  Really can't say for sure, but know I saw the guard prowling around with his sword out and a score of 0.  The transition (4)->(5) sounds fragile to me, but I'll have to see if I can definitely break it.

Suspect I did duck into hiding at point (4), so my concern would be the guard becoming fully alarmed with a zero stealth score.

I agree that this business of having the stealth score permanently on show very much changes the game.  Will also give your mini-map a try.

Edited December 30, 2022 by Araneidae

[MirceaKitsune]

1 hour ago, nbohr1more said:

Please make sure that these issues only happen in 2.11. If the same things happen in 2.10 or earlier and there are no open trackers then please open new ones.

That might be more complicated as I'll need to downgrade, play it or other entire FM's again, and feel out if the result are the same. Getting the guard to hit through the door like that is a rare event, happened by accident and I probably couldn't get it to be the same way again if I tried for hours. I might if I find some time but can't make a promise at the moment.

I looked at them as occurrences that might be out of place at the moment: Indeed I don't know if I saw any of them in 2.10 which I last used a while ago. My vague memory tells me AI didn't suddenly spot you like that after walking past you and ignoring you for several seconds, but with each FM being so different it's hard to tell without one or more extra playthroughs just for retesting.

Edited December 30, 2022 by MirceaKitsune

[thebigh]

12 hours ago, stgatilov said:

f you have this issue: specify which beta version it is (remove mods), delete FM directory and download fresh FM, try to reproduce it from clean start, post your screenshot and darkmod.cfg.

 

I think there's something funky going on with my system. I deleted Dark Mod entirely, reinstalled, and re-downloaded 2.11.04 beta, so all my config files and such are vanilla and I'm no longer using any mods. I'm still getting the weird candle bugs and, on top of that, many missions that use an in-game map (for example Builder's Influence) show the map for Hidden Hands: Initiation instead. I haven't even re-downloaded that mission yet. So clearly there's some junk still lying around on my Linux system where Darkmod looks for it but I can't find it. I really have no idea what's going on.

edit: 2.10 release is unaffected for me, both the map and candle bugs.

Edited December 30, 2022 by thebigh

[Dragofer]

@MirceaKitsuneA lot of the unexpected detections sound like they may be a consequence of this: https://bugs.thedarkmod.com/view.php?id=6091

[MirceaKitsune]

16 minutes ago, Dragofer said:

@MirceaKitsuneA lot of the unexpected detections sound like they may be a consequence of this: https://bugs.thedarkmod.com/view.php?id=6091

Thanks. That could explain the AI seeing me right behind them in such an exaggerated way. I think what I'm seeing may warrant its own bug report but I'd like to understand it better first.

The effect I noticed around those stairs intrigues me the most: AI often walk past you, either searching or even just walking on normal patrol routes, then after a few seconds they suddenly turn back and attack the player out of  nowhere. Even if the player is in complete darkness at the time (lightgem at minimal level), not making any noise, and the AI shouldn't have touched the player either. But it will only happen if the player was nearby as the AI moved past.

In another FM I played recently (not on that stream) I had another similar oddity: An alerted guard was running after me but had lost track of me. They sped right past me down the corridor as I hid behind a pillar in a dark spot, then after several seconds of being away, came running back down the corridor and attacked me knowing exactly where I was. It felt like the guard must have touched me when they first ran past, but it took a very long time for the signal to register thus the guard returned from far down the hall once it finally did; Might have been something else too but that was my impression... those scenarios are a bit difficult to test consistently since it depends on a lot of momentary conditions that sort of emerge on their own.

Edited December 30, 2022 by MirceaKitsune

[Araneidae]

17 hours ago, Dragofer said:

You can try the test map yourself if you're interested, just put this next to the bcd.pk4 in darkmod/fms/bcd, then enter this console command in TDM: "testmap stealth". bcd_stealth.pk4

Well, that was interesting.  I did as suggested, and ran `testmap stealth` without first loading bcd itself ... and got the attached screen:

I've had to compress the screenshot in gimp (reduced JPEG quality to 10) to upload it, but it's a pretty truthful representation of what I'm seeing.

Here's the corresponding log:

]testmap stealth
---- dmap ----
--- LoadDMapFile ---
loading fms/bcd/bcd_stealth.pk4/maps/stealth
WARNING:Couldn't load map file: 'fms/bcd/bcd_stealth.pk4/maps/stealth'
------------- Warnings ---------------
during running dmap...
WARNING:Couldn't load map file: 'fms/bcd/bcd_stealth.pk4/maps/stealth'
1 warnings
reloading guis/msg.gui.
reloading guis/mainmenu.gui.
--------- Map Initialization ---------
Map: stealth
idRenderWorldLocal::InitFromMap: maps/stealth.proc not found
TODO: Sys_SetClipboardData
ERROR:Couldn't load maps/stealth
--------------------------------------
WARNING:idSession: triggering mainmenu watchdog

 

Edited December 31, 2022 by Araneidae

[Dragofer]

1 hour ago, Araneidae said:

Well, that was interesting.  I did as suggested, and ran `testmap stealth` without first loading bcd itself ... and got the attached screen:

For some reason when I run "testmap stealth", with stealth.map in the .pk4, the console just tells me "loading maps/stealth" rather than "loading fms/bcd/bcd_stealth.pk4/maps/stealth".

Maybe just unpack and delete that .pk4 after renaming the extension to .zip, so that you get darkmod/fms/bcd/maps/stealth.map. Maybe also split up the console commands into "dmap stealth", then "map stealth". You don't need to load bcd beforehand.

[Araneidae]

1 hour ago, Dragofer said:

Maybe just unpack and delete that .pk4 ... so that you get darkmod/fms/bcd/maps/stealth.map.

Yes, that worked.

[lowenz]

Ah, good news!

beta 4 runs perfectly on Intel Xe class GPU (UHD 750), with the same settings I use with the RX 570, just with 1/4 resolution  (1280x720) - and I mean plain flat 80 FPS in St. Lucia

No problem to run it in FHQ and in QHD too with some trade-off (no soft shadows)

-> https://postimg.cc/c6YpfRRm

Edited December 31, 2022 by lowenz

[Darkness_Falls]

I updated to 2.11 beta and tried to run TDM recently, but Norton blocked something from happening:

Quote

Action Observed: Suspicious process attempted to lock a file protected by Data Protector. Target: C:\Windows\INF\input.inf

I assume Norton is just being extra cautious. Am I right? It's okay to let the process run, right? If so, I wonder if something should be tweaked in the code before official launch to help avoid false flags by anti-virus programs at launch:

[Araneidae]

@Dragofer, with your test map I was able to reproduce the issue fairly quickly:

• While the guard is walking away walk left into the darkness
• Once the guard has turned around walk into the light so he can see you
• Guard goes quickly into alerted mode, score goes to 3
• Walk straight back into darkness.  The timing here is a little tricky...
• Score goes to zero, guard continues searching with sword out

Think this is a clear stealth score bug!

[Dragofer]

4 hours ago, Araneidae said:

@Dragofer, with your test map I was able to reproduce the issue fairly quickly:

• While the guard is walking away walk left into the darkness
• Once the guard has turned around walk into the light so he can see you
• Guard goes quickly into alerted mode, score goes to 3
• Walk straight back into darkness.  The timing here is a little tricky...
• Score goes to zero, guard continues searching with sword out

Think this is a clear stealth score bug!

I've made a change so that m_ignorePlayer doesn't stop the current alert from counting towards the alert score. Now the stealth statistics become +1 sightings, +5 score as soon as the player is fully detected, and seem to stay there regardless of what happens afterwards.

One extra stealth score bug I noticed while testing this is that if an AI is fighting you and you duck out of sight for some seconds, then duck back into sight before the AI leaves combat mode, the time where you weren't visible is added to seenTime. Probably not as high priority to fix asap (i.e. during this beta period) as full detections counting as 0 score.

[Dragofer]

6 hours ago, Darkness_Falls said:

I updated to 2.11 beta and tried to run TDM recently, but Norton blocked something from happening:

I assume Norton is just being extra cautious. Am I right? It's okay to let the process run, right? If so, I wonder if something should be tweaked in the code before official launch to help avoid false flags by anti-virus programs at launch:

My antivirus puts the .exe in quarantine mode every time the exe changes. It seems to be normal for antivirus programs to be extra cautious with any .exe - I haven't seen that kind of warning about locking a Windows file, though.

[AluminumHaste]

Usually Windows AV doesn't like EXE files that came from someone else's computer (ie, not digitally signed).

But I've never had a problem with my darkmod installations though. What does the Security log say when you check? What was the reason it freaked out?

[stgatilov]

8 hours ago, Darkness_Falls said:

I ran it locally under procmon, and yes, it tries to load this file.
Don't know exactly why, but I suppose that's something from DirectInput (or OpenAL-soft maybe).

[lowenz]

About OpenAL, you can update to 1.22.x!

[The Black Arrow]

I'm not into Beta builds but I think I should give this a try, after all it has the "Better Crouch" function I requested and @Daft Mugi was kind enough to make. Thank you yet again Daft Mugi, and the Dark Mod devteam for accepting it!

Lovely update as always, I am glad to see you're all happy and healthy and still going.

Also, a bit off-topic but what the hell; Happy New Year!

[stgatilov]

On 12/30/2022 at 8:56 PM, MirceaKitsune said:

1. https://youtu.be/bAw56sNSkJQ?t=5884 (1:38:04) Wasn't sure if this is map specific and worth mentioning again, but that chair has no collisions. I presume it wasn't set that way on purpose by the mapper so throwing it in.

Mapper set it to nonsolid:

Spoiler

// entity 2109
{
"classname" "func_static"
"name" "func_static_1764"
"model" "models/darkmod/furniture/seating/wchair1.lwo"
"origin" "-307.736 -740.013 28"
"rotation" "-1 -1.48825e-006 0 1.48825e-006 -1 0 0 0 1"
"solid" "0"
}

 

Quote

https://youtu.be/bAw56sNSkJQ?t=2407 (40:07) Collision bug, may be map specific but obviously this wouldn't have been done on purpose by the mapper so maybe worth noting. I'm able to walk straight through that furnace; Even when I seem to sit on something as it clips through me, I get the wood collision sound so the furnace remains ghosted.

I failed to reproduce this.
I can easily imagine TDM's player collision code is not 100% reliable and if you get unlucky, you can clip into object. But I'm afraid there nothing to fix here...

 

Quote

1. https://youtu.be/bAw56sNSkJQ?t=1195 (19:55) Shows the HUD glitch. Look at the bottom-right corner of the screen: As I selected a key the compass didn't go away, the key was drawn on top of it for a second until I cycled away. I don't know what I might have done special to trigger that effect.
2. https://youtu.be/bAw56sNSkJQ?t=5359 (1:29:19) Second occurrence of the HUD bug, lockpick over the loot icon.

Could not reproduce easily.
If you find some reliable way to reproduce, that would be great (probably involves save/load, removing an item, or doing something while item is active).

As for weird AI reactions...
I suppose that has been like that for a pretty long time, and I'd rather not mess with it

[Daft Mugi]

The default for "pm_bobup" has changed from 0.03 to 0.035.

The line where pm_bobup was set to 0.03 was removed from the tdm_player_thief.def file, which was good.
The code has the default as 0.035, though.

Attached patch changes it back to 2.10 default of 0.03.

r10237-set-pm_bobup-to-2.10-default.diff

[stgatilov]

9 hours ago, Daft Mugi said:

Attached patch changes it back to 2.10 default

Applied the patch.

[stgatilov]

beta211-05 is available.

I'm positively surprised by how fast testing goes
I accidentally broke two things during these two weeks , but each of them was caught on trunk within a day
Let's hope I broke only two things

 

[Dragofer]

58 minutes ago, stgatilov said:

beta211-05 is available.

I'm positively surprised by how fast testing goes
I accidentally broke two things during these two weeks , but each of them was caught on trunk within a day
Let's hope I broke only two things

 

One of them is the subtitles/readables overflow?