Jump to content
The Dark Mod Forums

[Resolved] Allow mantling while carrying a body


Daft Mugi

Recommended Posts

15 minutes ago, wesp5 said:

Why not change that to mantling with a body is fine as long as you don't need to jump which you can't anyway? This would be more easy to learn.

In TDM 2.10, you can jump while carrying a body, but the jump height is reduced.

Originally, I tried to restrict the mantle to happen only if the player's feet were on the ground, but that only worked for the dedicated mantle key. If the player pressed the jump key to do a mantle instead, the player's feet would leave the ground ever so slightly before the mantle would initiate. That meant the player wasn't grounded and the mantle wouldn't happen. In other words, restricting the player to have both feet on the ground meant that only the dedicated mantle key would work.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, Daft Mugi said:

The player will learn through trial and error.

Assuming that is a design failure, whether in map, systems or other :(

That's why it is generally better to have fewer and simpler rules.

Speaking of disabling jumping while carrying a body, I hope you are aware that it will effectively prevent players from climbing a rope with a body.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

33 minutes ago, peter_spy said:

That's why it is generally better to have fewer and simpler rules.

I think it's simple. Mantle while carrying a body is allowed for low objects and the player cannot be falling.

What's not simple about that?

Edited by Daft Mugi
Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's not simple, because "low" is a subjective category, and whether you plan to include some margin of error on that (I'm not even asking about how you plan on calculating that, or explaining that to players), you'll receive tons of complaints by players and mappers alike, who'd either think this range should be higher or lower :D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

39 minutes ago, peter_spy said:

Speaking of disabling jumping while carrying a body, I hope you are aware that it will effectively prevent players from climbing a rope with a body.

If you are talking to me here, I never implemented a disabled jump while carrying a body. I also do not support restricting the player in that way.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, peter_spy said:

It's not simple, because "low" is a subjective category, and whether you plan to include some margin of error on that (I'm not even asking about how you plan on calculating that, or explaining that to players), you'll receive tons of complaints by players and mappers alike, who'd either think this range should be higher or lower :D

Well, the good thing is that they can adjust the height using a cvar.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If anything, yes – just climb surfaces with a body, period. No weird "climb this but not that" situations.

Although it will force mappers to build high enough walls to prevent players from moving bodies from a location, if that's something a mapper would want.

Edited by peter_spy
Link to comment
Share on other sites

56 minutes ago, peter_spy said:

If anything, yes – just climb surfaces with a body, period. No weird "climb this but not that" situations.

Yeah. After reading through this whole saga that's the conclusion I'm arriving at. Certainly, if we take the question of breaking old missions off the table, unrestricted mantling while encumbered is how things ought to work (in order to harmonize with the player avatar's super-human climbing strength). 😆

However, old missions are on the table, so I guess caution is the best approach. Slow as it is the way you guys are handling this so far is working: propose a rule change and ask the community if it would cause problems. If yes, then revise. If no, then ask if another ruleset would produce a better player experience, and if yes then continue to iterate.  

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 2/5/2023 at 2:56 PM, stgatilov said:
  1. Fall damage: I think it is very hard to balance this, since it depends much on physics, and that is today also frame-dependent. In case of unconscious body it depends on ragdoll physics, which is very hard to control. How high player can fall without damange/dying should be more or less fixed, but as for body... I'm eager only to fix major issues, like "falling from any height does not induce damage".

 

 

What's the conclusion here regarding fall damage for unconscious body?  I just tried it as well, and basically can't get a body to die, or even take damage after tossing one from 600 units up.  Is it safe to say one shouldn't rely on this mechanic (say for a mission objective)?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It seems like it is impossible to kill an AI by dropping it. What I got initially was like some kind of physics glitch. It might be worth checking with more complex surfaces though, like rocks or some sharp spikes. With flat surfaces, the AI will pretty much land unconscious, even if dropped from an Angelwatch.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

There's a bug report opened.

https://bugs.thedarkmod.com/view.php?id=6254

Keep in mind, this isn't new. This appears to have been broken since 2.05. Maybe it started working again some time between, but it got fixed in 2.03, still worked in 2.04, then stopped working in 2.05. I stopped testing at that point.

  • Like 3

I always assumed I'd taste like boot leather.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, Frost_Salamander said:

What's the conclusion here regarding fall damage for unconscious body?  I just tried it as well, and basically can't get a body to die, or even take damage after tossing one from 600 units up.  Is it safe to say one shouldn't rely on this mechanic (say for a mission objective)?

It is not safe to rely on.
I'll also have hard time convincing player that it is OK to throw a valuable body from high height 😁

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...
  • Daft Mugi changed the title to [Resolved] Allow mantling while carrying a body
4 hours ago, snatcher said:

Is there a final decision on this matter?

I've updated the first post with "resolved" info, and I've included the same info here.

Mantling at waist height is included in 2.12 dev builds, starting with dev16778-10275, which is open to feedback during the dev release cycle.

pm_mantle_while_shouldering cvar.

pm_mantle_while_shouldering, default: 1
Which restriction for mantle while shouldering?
  0 --- no mantling while shouldering a body (TDM original)
  1 --- restricted mantling while shouldering a body
  2 --- unrestricted mantling while shouldering a body (Cheat Mode)

pm_mantle_maxShoulderingObstacleHeight cvar.

pm_mantle_maxShoulderingObstacleHeight, default: 41
The maximum height of obstacles allowed for a shouldering body mantle
Note that mantling above eye level is disabled regardless of this value
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 4 weeks later...
  • 1 month later...

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Recent Status Updates

    • Ansome

      Finally got my PC back from the shop after my SSD got corrupted a week ago and damaged my motherboard. Scary stuff, but thank goodness it happened right after two months of FM development instead of wiping all my work before I could release it. New SSD, repaired Motherboard and BIOS, and we're ready to start working on my second FM with some added version control in the cloud just to be safe!
      · 0 replies
    • Petike the Taffer  »  DeTeEff

      I've updated the articles for your FMs and your author category at the wiki. Your newer nickname (DeTeEff) now comes first, and the one in parentheses is your older nickname (Fieldmedic). Just to avoid confusing people who played your FMs years ago and remember your older nickname. I've added a wiki article for your latest FM, Who Watches the Watcher?, as part of my current updating efforts. Unless I overlooked something, you have five different FMs so far.
      · 0 replies
    • Petike the Taffer

      I've finally managed to log in to The Dark Mod Wiki. I'm back in the saddle and before the holidays start in full, I'll be adding a few new FM articles and doing other updates. Written in Stone is already done.
      · 4 replies
    • nbohr1more

      TDM 15th Anniversary Contest is now active! Please declare your participation: https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/22413-the-dark-mod-15th-anniversary-contest-entry-thread/
       
      · 0 replies
    • JackFarmer

      @TheUnbeholden
      You cannot receive PMs. Could you please be so kind and check your mailbox if it is full (or maybe you switched off the function)?
      · 1 reply
×
×
  • Create New...