Jump to content
The Dark Mod Forums

Underground Lighting


Gildoran

Recommended Posts

  • Replies 64
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

There are going to be rope arrows because the vast majority of Thief players love them. Of course they aren't realistic. This isn't a realistic game. It's a game about a thief who sneaks around in the dark while carrying a dozen plates, goblets, rolled up canvases, coins, bottles, and thirty or forty arrows, all without making a noise.

 

Arguing whether or not there's enough water in a crystal to put out a torch or how much strength it takes to climb a wall is pretty pointless when the basic game mechanics are inherently unrealistic. In the end, it's about making a game that's fun, not a reality simulator.

 

Yeah maybe I should have said what I said differently... of course rope arrows are cool, but IMHO vine arrows would be even better, but that's just my suggestion, and not a demand by any stretch :) Vine arrows would be probably very easy to put in somewhere along the road afterall - no need for drastic changes in the code.

 

My suggestion for vine arrows - perhaps instead of having them stick forever, you could retrieve them, but only by using a knife/dagger/something, which would take a LOT of time.

 

As for the comment on tha game basics being inherently unrealistic - actually I think the game basics are pretty realistic, apart from some elements where taking the realistic route would seriously hinder the gameplay an/or make it too tedious and frustrating - hence the unlimited inventory. Also, some compromises surely had to be made because the engine wasn't advanced enough at that time... my 0.02

Link to comment
Share on other sites

(have read most but not all)

 

One thing I'd like to see in the way of lighting, as well as portable torches, would be some kind of tinderbox. I know a lighter has been mentioned, but a tinderbox is a nicer idea, or something suitably anachronistic - just not something plastic or shiny metal. I was most dissatisfied with the method of lighting torches with a fire arrow - it's just too noisy for such little gain. If a tinderbox is too normal, then how about something similar to the "firemetal" sold on thinkgeek? It's a rod of what looks like carbon, but when you move a metal blade, key or something down it, 3,000° sparks fly off it, so it's somewhat more high-tech.

 

Setting people on fire would be useful, too. I hated in TDS where you could set the oil on fire, but when people walked into it they tended to go "uhhh" and fall over - they didn't scream, or dance around or anything similar, and it was altogether crappy.

 

Fires as distractions... That's very tricky. Obviously a fire arrow let off inside an old building would ignite at the very least the carpet, any curtains and if given half a chance, the entire structure. This would not be good for gameplay AT ALL, except in the freedoms sense. The only way I can envisage this being successful is if some sort of fire service were available wherever it were possible, whereby anyone doing this carelessly would find the mission overrun with servicemen and extra guards to catch you.... Probably wouldn't work.

 

Vine arrows... DON'T TAKE MAH VINE ARROWS! People complained so bitterly when they were removed from thief, and with good reason. Nothing was like being able to espy a route up a wall because there was a wooden ledge - freedom abound, and it wasn't as stilted as the "secrets" in Thief 3. Which didn't feel like freedom - they felt like easter eggs. I don't support the one-shot job, either... They felt like tools more then expendables. Like a grappling hook.

As for climbing gloves... I'm not sure about slowing them down. What I do favour is ceasing this ludicrous four-directional movement. The obvious (to me) and cool (to me) way of handling it would be for the camera to rotate to look upwards. You should then be able to look in the direction you wish to go, and move similarly to on the ground, except you'd have to do the slow-turning movements, because insta-rotate wouldn't work whilst on the wall. Might need to constrain turning to pointing mostly up, but I think the lack of control you had in TDS was ridiculous.

 

EDIT: (after back from work!)

 

Hmms, other things on lighting... (This has sort of turned into another requests thread... you poor guys) I'd like to see candles more easily put out. Just for kicks, for example, shooting them with enough force to make them move quickly should snuff 'em. This would be especially useful with those big chandeliers - the discerning thief need only knock the frame with enough force, and there we have it. One fewer water arrow wasted :)

Eh, I was sure I was going to say something else. Can't have been important, though.

Edited by FishFace

--

Somethin' fishy's goin' on here... Come on out, you taffer!

 

~The Fishy Taffer

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There are going to be rope arrows because the vast majority of Thief players love them.  Of course they aren't realistic.  This isn't a realistic game.  It's a game about a thief who sneaks around in the dark while carrying a dozen plates, goblets, rolled up canvases, coins, bottles, and thirty or forty arrows, all without making a noise.

 

Arguing whether or not there's enough water in a crystal to put out a torch or how much strength it takes to climb a wall is pretty pointless when the basic game mechanics are inherently unrealistic.  In the end, it's about making a game that's fun, not a reality simulator.

 

 

As I have no doubt said many a time, I would like to have a game like Thief, but quite realistic, with realistic limits on how much loot and equipment the thief can carry, and realistic gameplay mechanics. I want a reality simulator dammit (within reason)! Thief was a fun game, but I want to play and map something a bit different, with a greater emphasis on realism, with no magic etc. Perhaps I am in too small a minority for anyone to want to cater to my tastes, which is fair enough, but come on! Thief has been made already, lets not reinvent the wheel, do something at least slightly different! Anyone else like the idea of a Thief sim (I find simulators fun, maybe that makes me a little strange), or is it just me?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Count me in, I'm all for it, but I'll be damn happy even if it's the same old Thief verbatim copied into the new engine, so...

 

Hey, it's a toolkit afterall, which I view as more of a starting point to get folks going than a game with all the mechanics and resources set in stone... Once it's released, you'll be able to put stuff into it all you want...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Vine arrows... DON'T TAKE MAH VINE ARROWS! People complained so bitterly when they were removed from thief, and with good reason.

 

There will be vine arrows, but they will operate differently than the T2 ones, which were essentially rope arrows that worked on grates..

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah, I know - you keep posting news items about them ;) It was more a plea to other people around here.

 

To Obscurus + his camp - I don't think there'll be anything to stop you or others making a realistic world, which is the beauty of TDM being a toolkit... We're not talking a one-size-fits all game, here. In the end, TDM could end up with its own worlds being spawned, each with its own backstory, FMs and gameplay mechanics.

I, too, would like to try out the realistic side of thief (with the lockpicking, etc) but something as amazing as rope arrows cannot be left out entirely.

--

Somethin' fishy's goin' on here... Come on out, you taffer!

 

~The Fishy Taffer

Link to comment
Share on other sites

why do we have to climb vertically? and why can't we swing? i would love to see

 

i'd like to see things like flying foxes, or ropes that are at an angle and fixed at both ends so the thief has to crawl across it. and what about grapling hooks the thief can throw?

 

*Dopefishhh runs back to the shadows after sneak attacking with a few ideas

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If I recall, grappling hooks weren't going to be done at least for the first release. I'm not sure whether they're on the cards for later on - they're certainly not in the classic thief vein, although for a more ninja-style thief mod, perhaps they'd fit.

 

I think, though, that one of the things TDM is going to have to replicate is the incredibly fluid feel of clambering around in TDP/MA. When you're running around the rooftops, leaping with abandon, knowing instinctively when to hit jump again to grap onto the next surface, needing only to stop for a second to shoot a rope arrow at a wooden window box... Again, it's immersion epitomised, because it's so natural. Anything new that is introduced will have to live up to this - and it's where climbing gloves didn't cut it, and TDS' general lack of clambering didn't cut it.

--

Somethin' fishy's goin' on here... Come on out, you taffer!

 

~The Fishy Taffer

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If I recall, grappling hooks weren't going to be done at least for the first release. I'm not sure whether they're on the cards for later on - they're certainly not in the classic thief vein, although for a more ninja-style thief mod, perhaps they'd fit.

 

I think, though, that one of the things TDM is going to have to replicate is the incredibly fluid feel of clambering around in TDP/MA. When you're running around the rooftops, leaping with abandon, knowing instinctively when to hit jump again to grap onto the next surface, needing only to stop for a second to shoot a rope arrow at a wooden window box... Again, it's immersion epitomised, because it's so natural. Anything new that is introduced will have to live up to this - and it's where climbing gloves didn't cut it, and TDS' general lack of clambering didn't cut it.

 

WORD

 

this is indeed something I liked about thief. No other game has had such a fluid, natural movement IMO. the way you mantle, the way you run and jump.. pure elegant bliss. this is one of the most important things in creating immersion...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah, I know - you keep posting news items about them ;) It was more a plea to other people around here.

 

To Obscurus + his camp - I don't think there'll be anything to stop you or others making a realistic world, which is the beauty of TDM being a toolkit... We're not talking a one-size-fits all game, here. In the end, TDM could end up with its own worlds being spawned, each with its own backstory, FMs and gameplay mechanics.

I, too, would like to try out the realistic side of thief (with the lockpicking, etc) but something as amazing as rope arrows cannot be left out entirely.

 

 

Fair enough, suits me :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's not a reality simulator, yet people find they are immersed in the world more if they can "believe" what's going on. You need a happy medium. From what I know about the DarkMod team, I'm sure we will have that.

 

Grappling hooks - definetly want to be aiming for that, but choosing a rope arrow instead and only being able to climb a rope arrow vertically with no swinging, is currently the same reason for us as I think it was for LGS - grappling hook physics would be insane to get right. Even if you got it behaving the way you wanted, there would be some amazing bugs to work out.

 

If you guys like elegance, you'll be happy with what sophisticateZombie has done for our mantling :) It's awesome.

 

 

Back on track, personally I think the personal light source should be unlimited, but possibly hard to refuel, or get going or something, to compensate for being unlimited. I want it to be unlimited so that i could make a mission that has a part like a cellar or underground cave and not have to put strange light sources in that take up resources and arent' very realistic. If it's limited, the player can always run out, making that part o fthe mission impossible to walk through and require a re-load. And if I put heaps of personal light source fuels in to compensate, I may as well make the personal light source unlimited anyway.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

this is indeed something I liked about thief. No other game has had such a fluid, natural movement IMO. the way you mantle, the way you run and jump.. pure elegant bliss. this is one of the most important things in creating immersion...

 

I can assure you. From our early tests with mantling, the developer made a perfect job of it. Even though we don't support "body awareness" as TDS had, our mantling now feels as if you are moving a real body doing the pull up. :)

Gerhard

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wouldn't completely lighting up the player balance it being unlimited? Although it would be a complete pain to program, if guards could notice and investigate moving lightsources (or ones that aren't supposed to be there) that would also help balance it. The way I see it, is that a portable light-source increases a mapper's options for lighting, more than it increases a player's abilities. Heck, it could make life harder on the player because hiding loot in dark corners suddenly becomes a little bit more legitimate if the player has a light source.

 

BTW... this seemed like a good place for the following request... Some games have a calibration picture by the gamma slider so you can play the game how its creators intended. Usually they say something like "You shouldn't be able to see the word 'dark' but you should be able to just barely read the word 'dim'." Could the DarkMod include something like that? Although stealth/gameplay and the light-gem should probably prevent maps from diverging too wildly, it's still not hard to imagine someone who always plays with the gamma up making darker maps, or someone who plays with it down making brighter maps, each person having done so under the assumption that the player will use a similar gamma.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wouldn't completely lighting up the player balance it being unlimited?

It would to some extent, but if it's a flashlight type concept it's not too hard to turn off quickly, whereas i like the idea of having to cast it away somewhere like Ihad to in many T2 FMs where you were given a lantern to carry around.

 

BTW... this seemed like a good place for the following request... Some games have a calibration picture by the gamma slider so you can play the game how its creators intended. Usually they say something like "You shouldn't be able to see the word 'dark' but you should be able to just barely read the word 'dim'."

We definietly need this. The part in the T2 manual didn't cut it - "start the first mission, you should only just be able to see the trees against the wall". We need a specific screen.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Recent Status Updates

    • Ansome

      Finally got my PC back from the shop after my SSD got corrupted a week ago and damaged my motherboard. Scary stuff, but thank goodness it happened right after two months of FM development instead of wiping all my work before I could release it. New SSD, repaired Motherboard and BIOS, and we're ready to start working on my second FM with some added version control in the cloud just to be safe!
      · 0 replies
    • Petike the Taffer  »  DeTeEff

      I've updated the articles for your FMs and your author category at the wiki. Your newer nickname (DeTeEff) now comes first, and the one in parentheses is your older nickname (Fieldmedic). Just to avoid confusing people who played your FMs years ago and remember your older nickname. I've added a wiki article for your latest FM, Who Watches the Watcher?, as part of my current updating efforts. Unless I overlooked something, you have five different FMs so far.
      · 0 replies
    • Petike the Taffer

      I've finally managed to log in to The Dark Mod Wiki. I'm back in the saddle and before the holidays start in full, I'll be adding a few new FM articles and doing other updates. Written in Stone is already done.
      · 4 replies
    • nbohr1more

      TDM 15th Anniversary Contest is now active! Please declare your participation: https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/22413-the-dark-mod-15th-anniversary-contest-entry-thread/
       
      · 0 replies
    • JackFarmer

      @TheUnbeholden
      You cannot receive PMs. Could you please be so kind and check your mailbox if it is full (or maybe you switched off the function)?
      · 1 reply
×
×
  • Create New...