Few ideas...

[Wallace]

1) Visible body when looking down

2) Lot's of weapons in maps like axes, daggers etc, why not let the player wield them rather than them be mere objects?

3) Ability to go prone

4) Text readability to depend on external light source.

5) Headshots / direct face shots should be instakill, whether player or NPC.

6) Option to adjust objectives brightness.

7) Option to disable "a new mission is available" popup.  

[chakkman]

5) They are instakill.

For the rest of the suggestions: I don't think they are good ideas.

[datiswous]

1 hour ago, Wallace said:

2) Lot's of weapons in maps like axes, daggers etc, why not let the player wield them rather than them be mere objects?

This is up to the mapper.

1 hour ago, Wallace said:

5) Headshots / direct face shots should be instakill, whether player or NPC.

That is already the case.

 

[wesp5]

1 hour ago, chakkman said:

5) They are instakill.

For the rest of the suggestions: I don't think they are good ideas.

This is not true. Headshots normally only have a damage multiplier which sometimes is not enough, so I increased it in my Unofficial Patch. Points 1-3 would require new models and animations and thus are not worth the effort. I believe 4 and 6 is being worked on and I don't even know what you mean by 7. You don't want to know when new missions are available for download or you don't want to know about new mission objectives?

Edited May 19 by wesp5

[datiswous]

1 hour ago, wesp5 said:

and I don't even know what you mean by 7. You don't want to know when new missions are available for download or you don't want to know about new mission objectives?

This message appears after installing missions yourself.

It's kind of a double message. Because after download it gives you a message in the downloader about the missions installed (although you wouldn't see this when you would manually download them outside of the downloader) and then in the Missions list it gives you this message.

 

1 hour ago, wesp5 said:

This is not true. Headshots normally only have a damage multiplier which sometimes is not enough

I think usually it's enough for an instakill, but maybe not when ai has helmet, or maybe when health is increased by mapper.

Anyway, this should actually be up to the mapper. The player can then decide to mod it again.

Edited May 19 by datiswous

[Wallace]

3 hours ago, chakkman said:

5) They are instakill.

For the rest of the suggestions: I don't think they are good ideas.

This is true if the enemy is not alerted, but when alert they will often survive direct head/face shots with a broadhead arrow.

2 hours ago, wesp5 said:

I don't even know what you mean by 7. You don't want to know when new missions are available for download or you don't want to know about new mission objectives?

As datiswous screenshot shows, that popup is both redundant and pointless by virtue of the fact that—

a) Unless the player is an idiot they'll know what mission they just selected to DL and thus do not need a popup reminder.

b) New missions will not have the green tick next and are easily seeable.

 

Edited May 19 by Wallace

[chakkman]

1 hour ago, Wallace said:

This is true if the enemy is not alerted, but when alert they will often survive direct head/face shots with a broadhead arrow.

That is something I often criticized in the past as well: The vulnerability of enemies, related to their alert state. It's silly in most regards.

Why would an enemy be less vulnerable to arrows through the head, when they're more alert? Why would they be less prone to be K.O.'d, when they're alerted?

I think this still stems from the original games' mechanics, where guards in search state couldn't be knocked out anymore. I think they should always be killable (instakill by headshot) and K.O.'able, regardless of their alert  state.

Edited May 19 by chakkman

[wesp5]

This magical ko-immunity was the main reason why I made the Unofficial Patch in the first place :)! Besides the extinguishable oil lamps ;)...

Edited May 19 by wesp5

[I.C.H.I.]

1 hour ago, wesp5 said:

magical ko-immunity

I wonder if this is the main reason that makes flash bombs useless, basically you are unable to KO anyone right away after using flash bomb on them which is just bizarre. In Thief games it never worked like that, but in TDM it is what it is and I simply never used them when I played every available FM.

[Wallace]

@wesp

Does your / can your patch remove the asterisk before translated mods in the DL'able missions list? I don't want missions I've done / possess to be visible in the non-DL'ed missions.

Alternatively, is there another way of simply removing these annoying "translated" missions?

[chakkman]

50 minutes ago, I.C.H.I. said:

I wonder if this is the main reason that makes flash bombs useless, basically you are unable to KO anyone right away after using flash bomb on them which is just bizarre. In Thief games it never worked like that, but in TDM it is what it is and I simply never used them when I played every available FM.

In the original Thief games, flash bombs were my weapon of choice to take out static guards which face each other. As you say, in TDM, they are utterly useless, because guards which are flash bombed immediately get into an alert state making them immune to blackjacking.

Again, one of those things that really should be changed.

[OrbWeaver]

I liked the original T1/T2 flash bomb behaviour too, but I think a lot of players felt it was an exploit, because flashbombs were really intended as a tool to help you escape, not knock out an entire room full of guards in one go.

Maybe I should try the Unofficial Patch. I consistently feel that the current game caters too much towards the "Original Thief was way too easy, MORE difficulty NOW!" crowd. I think it should also be accessible for people who want to experience the story and environments that mappers have created, without having to save and reload every 5 seconds because game difficulty has been turned up to 11.

[chakkman]

Spot on.

[datiswous]

The issue I have with the unofficial patch and also tdm modpack core essentials is that you cannot easilly disable individual "patches", so that means a NO for me on both. 

There's for example some stuff in the unofficial patch that (I think) 99% of players will not want enabled.

Example:

"Changed western empire maps so the location of Bridgeport is vague."

This is forced on all missions (I assume).

Edited May 19 by datiswous

[wesp5]

10 hours ago, Wallace said:

@wesp

Does your / can your patch remove the asterisk before translated mods in the DL'able missions list? I don't want missions I've done / possess to be visible in the non-DL'ed missions.

Alternatively, is there another way of simply removing these annoying "translated" missions?

I can take a look at this and also at the pop up window, if both are defined in the UI code.

[wesp5]

8 hours ago, datiswous said:

"Changed western empire maps so the location of Bridgeport is vague."

This is forced on all missions (I assume).

I disabled it for a mission where the author didn't want it (what that you?), but honestly: Bridgeport, with that name and English speaking people is in Southern France? That is just stupid, so I left the exact location more kind of a mystery...

Edited May 20 by wesp5

[datiswous]

I think nobody wants you to modify (their) missions in that way. I think you should categorize patches, so people can choose what to apply.

It's an alternative universe, so don't expect thinks to make sense according to reality.

[Wellingtoncrab]

8 hours ago, wesp5 said:

what that you?

No that's me. 

And yes I don't think people who install a "patch" expect it to change art and story elements in people's missions. At a minimum there is usually a way to opt out of it. Didn't you learn this with your own Bloodlines patch already?

8 hours ago, wesp5 said:

I disabled it for a mission where the author didn't want it

Weird approach that you make authors “opt out” in the first place - but if that is the case I would just reiterate you do not have my permission to modify the art or story in anyway in *any* mission I have and will ever work on, not just the one. To be clear you do not *need* my permission to mod the game (and make no mistake - the unofficial “patch” is a mod, not a patch) but I would consider it a courtesy if you please honor my request.

8 hours ago, wesp5 said:

but honestly: Bridgeport, with that name and English speaking people is in Southern France? That is just stupid

I don't know why I am doing this again, but in TDM "Britain" and "France" do not exist. 

8 hours ago, wesp5 said:

so I left the exact location more kind of a mystery...

TDM is set on psuedo continental europe in an alternate history which diverges thousands of years ago. While that is stated case on the TDM wiki, the art selections for the maps leave the contours of the continent vague enough, even “mysterious” to the point that users like you were not even aware this was the case:

Let’s see how that aligns with some of your art selections:

Wow - you really have to squint to make out Europe. Cool map - but you haven’t exactly kept the “mystery” intact here.

[chakkman]

Well, leaving aside the snark of the last post, note that nobody has to install wesp5's patch, so, nobody is forced to be fine with the changes to the ingame maps he made.

I agree though that it's a different universe, thus "France" isn't full of Frenchies.

[Bergante]

On 5/19/2025 at 11:48 AM, Wallace said:

1) Visible body when looking down

2) Lot's of weapons in maps like axes, daggers etc, why not let the player wield them rather than them be mere objects?

3) Ability to go prone

4) Text readability to depend on external light source.

5) Headshots / direct face shots should be instakill, whether player or NPC.

6) Option to adjust objectives brightness.

7) Option to disable "a new mission is available" popup.  

8.)    KO-Arrow !!!!    
           I´ll really miss those 
    yes there are Gas-ones -  bur a real bumb to the Head is much more funny 

Edited May 20 by Bergante

[datiswous]

6 minutes ago, chakkman said:

Well, leaving aside the snark of the last post, note that nobody has to install wesp5's patch, so, nobody is forced to be fine with the changes to the ingame maps he made.

Yeah but what if you (only) want any of the other fixes in his "patch"? That is my point. You either make a patch/mod where you can enable/disable individual segments, or you divide them in multiple patches each doing a specific thing.

[datiswous]

15 minutes ago, Bergante said:

KO-Arrow !!!!    

The gas arrow is a ko-arrow.

I think a sleep arrow would be cool. Ai falls asleep but does wake up after a while (let's say 30 seconds). This could be a sleeping cloud similar to the gas arrow.

I think gas arrows are currently overpowered making them expensive and usually scarce.

[wesp5]

24 minutes ago, datiswous said:

Yeah but what if you (only) want any of the other fixes in his "patch"? That is my point. You either make a patch/mod where you can enable/disable individual segments, or you divide them in multiple patches each doing a specific thing.

I tried this in my Bloodlines patch before and I went back to basic/plus only because it was a nightmare to support when people have different combination of changes and then report an error. I could do that for the TDM patch as well, but I believe this map is a very minor change that nobody would probably have noticed if I hadn't mentioned in the readme! I don't remember any mission where the location of Bridgeport does matter and while I understand that it was easier for the development team, it would have been better if TDM was set in an alternate world like Middle Earth with its own map. Independent of what the history of the TDM world is supposed to be, it's very obvious in the map which Wellingtoncrab posted, that Bridgeport is the only town on that map with an English name which makes it really stick out as modded content added to an original map, which it shouldn't be! I guess somebody else complained about this, so I changed it.

Edited May 20 by wesp5

[datiswous]

7 minutes ago, wesp5 said:

but I believe this map is a very minor change that nobody would probably have noticed if I hadn't mentioned in the readme

If it's so minor that nobody notices it, why is it necessary to include it in your patch?

[wesp5]

42 minutes ago, datiswous said:

If it's so minor that nobody notices it, why is it necessary to include it in your patch?

As I wrote, if I remember correctly somebody complained about this and I fixed it. But indeed I'd rather remove this small detail than split the patch into multiple versions! Maybe somebody with access and knowledge about AI picture creation could make a "real" TDM world map in Middle Earth style where all the locations that are ever mentioned in missions are visible without it looking like somebody just took a free stock picture and slapped Bridgeport on it?

Edited May 20 by wesp5