Fan Mission: The Lieutenant 4: A Reciprocal Gambit by Frost_Salamander

[I.C.H.I.]

16 minutes ago, Frost_Salamander said:

You probably already know this but you can turn down the ambient volume in the menu. I typically have mine set to about 50% (even for more normal ambient).

I set it to zero when I was in the outdoors and turned back to the preferable value in the indoors. I very much enjoy the rest of the music TDM provides, so I think I'll just make a simple mod to get rid of that track in particular.

[Frost_Salamander]

Just now, peter_spy said:

These are stock TDM ambients right? So it's not like you could do a lot about it. These are in ogg format, so the only think you could do without adding compression artifacts would be via sound shader. I've been browsing through these ambients lately, and while you can reduce their volume either via shader, or in game menu, the main problem for me is that they were probably designed for small computer speakers from early 2000s. On near-field monitors, the amount of bass is making my head explode. If anyone has original uncompressed versions, it might be a good idea to do a re-EQ on them.

Yeah they are stock.  I was aware this one was pretty loud, and tried to make a custom version of the shader and reduce the volume on it using the volume keyword, but it didn't actually do anything, and I never could figure out why. Maybe something to do with the location system? The other thing I could have done was reduce the volume on the location entities themselves, which does work.  But by this point I had added that ambient to loads of locations already and didn't want to go and update them all (lazy, I know). Also, the wiki seemed to advise against doing this for some reason, so I just decided to rely on the ambient volume slider in the menu.

If I do an update, I will just update the location entities, unless someone knows why updating the sound shader doesn't seem to do anything.

[Guest]

Yeah, makes sense. You're right about the volume keyword, I recall a discussion from a bugtracker that this behavior was changed somehow. Maybe devs will know.

[Bergante]

Hi Jack 
a big thanks for this hijack into this excellent Mission ! 
as allways your mission-design is outstanding ; 
excellent in graphics and exiting/challenging in  playing.
at first sight one may think it´s a tunnel-Mission - but it´s not .
there are sideways , byways or for a good reason
Places that look like reachable but only to tell one : you may come here later

Spoiler

I knew it was not intended to do it this way (but i had to try)

don´t know how to praise more 
but i have some questions , some comments and some critics 
here they are :
 

Spoiler

First : think i know you don´t care to much about Ghosters (especially supremes) - doesn´t mind !
with really hard work on some places perfect ghost can be done
( no sup. for surely two Places - where the player is in need to use water-Arrows - sadly near to the end )
two other places look like they can´t be done - but 
for these are - second : ?  there seems to me two triggered behaviors that are unfair/questionable 
a.) the Girl at top of the stairs when one enters the pup from the end of the road

(I placed a candle near to her to make her more visible )
the trigger seems to be - to open her bedroom --- but as long as she is standing there - it´s nearly impossible to go around this corner without making her suspicious
(there is no other way to go up - ähhhh - there is - but that one is very tricky for an other behavior (see fourth))
b.) not sure ? the guy guarding the dock-key wasn´t moving , he stood in front of the closet up to the moment when i unlocked and tried to open it to reach the lever - after a few seconds he started moving ?


maybe he´s normally on a patrol-route !
so third : here to mention one of the problems in your mission : 
by ghosting i proceeded very slowly and i encountered more and more NPC´s that got stuck on walls or ...
(if you want pics for you need to know which special ones , i can post several of them )
Fourth : slipfalling down from somewhere (mostly windows) allways makes enough noise to get a suspicions 
so one needs to be tricky to do it in silence . but this needs a lot of trial and error . all this collected stuff makes also enough noise when on lets them fall . best way - place them before so you can fall down on your backway .
just to be mentioned !
But Fourth !!! : taking things out of one´s bags - making noise - to alarm Npc´s  ????
( the loudest one is the large Bread )
i made a rest in the Beergarden - to prepare the window to return from the pup - see what happened =




    ----

all in all  you get a 5(-) / out of 5
( the - only for my problems by trying to (Sup.-) ghost this fantastic Mission 


 

 

[Frost_Salamander]

Hi @Bergante.  Let me see if I understand correctly:

Spoiler

• You got into Pratt's room using stacked chairs to get to the dangling rope.  Correct, not intentional, but thanks for pointing that out.
• Ghosters - I do like to try and accommodate them, but I'm also thinking recently it would be nice to actually have to use your tools for a change.  People don't use them anymore and it's a bit sad.
• The woman in Hyde house.  There is nothing special going on there - I wonder if she just got stuck on the geometry.  She patrols from the kitchen to the upstairs bedroom so there shouldn't be a problem getting by her, and some bug has surfaced.
• The guy near the locked gate.  He is on patrol and should only stand by the locked box for a random time of between 10 and 20 seconds.  Maybe he's stuck on something as well.
• I'm not sure what your fourth point means.  You mean that you are forced to drop from windows and it makes too much noise?  Or are you saying that somehow the stuff in your pockets is making you louder?  Or dropping it makes too much noise?  Not sure what you mean....

Regardless, I'll look into the AI getting stuck thing,  If you find it's happening in the same spots repeatedly, let me know - maybe I've forgotten to add clip brushes and stuff like that.  Thanks!

 

[Bergante]

44 minutes ago, Frost_Salamander said:

Hi @Bergante.  Let me see if I understand correctly:

  Hide contents

• You got into Pratt's room using stacked chairs to get to the dangling rope.  Correct, not intentional, but thanks for pointing that out.
• Ghosters - I do like to try and accommodate them, but I'm also thinking recently it would be nice to actually have to use your tools for a change.  People don't use them anymore and it's a bit sad.
• The woman in Hyde house.  There is nothing special going on there - I wonder if she just got stuck on the geometry.  She patrols from the kitchen to the upstairs bedroom so there shouldn't be a problem getting by her, and some bug has surfaced.
• The guy near the locked gate.  He is on patrol and should only stand by the locked box for a random time of between 10 and 20 seconds.  Maybe he's stuck on something as well.
• I'm not sure what your fourth point means.  You mean that you are forced to drop from windows and it makes too much noise?  Or are you saying that somehow the stuff in your pockets is making you louder?  Or dropping it makes too much noise?  Not sure what you mean....

Regardless, I'll look into the AI getting stuck thing,  If you find it's happening in the same spots repeatedly, let me know - maybe I've forgotten to add clip brushes and stuff like that.  Thanks!

 

answers in hiding :
 

Spoiler

point 1 : it´s being hard work and i koed the outside guards - just for the fun to test if possible 
              i pointed it out as example one sees places where he gets later (and my proudness to have done so  )
     2 :     absolutely agree with you - but for i mostly try to sup.ghost i often miss the fun to do so 
              i normally use stuff one gets back or can bring back to where it belongs 
     3 :     on several starts she ´s allways standing there - up to the moment i passed her and opened her bedroom door 
              only since that moment she started going on her Route . in one way this was fine because i could try and
              do anything downstairs whitout being disturbed by her 
      4 :    Yeah ! thought so ( he was stuck ! i watched him longer than 20 sec. )
               so to open the box must have touched him ! what made him start his route once again .
              ( thankfully this made the trick - touching others who where stuck with any vegetables gives suspicious !
                 mostly making such guys walk again is to manupulate them with a crate or so - often works fine  )
      5 :    this is more complicated : when your forced to slip/fall from windows or similar on most places that´s a bit noisy 
              and often gives suspicious ( in some mission even when nobody is near ) 
              so far it´s fair and will also depend on difficultie-settings
              the standard trick is - to first pose a soft touching thing on the ground that reduces noises .
              normally one can let something fall down before one self falls down - here NO - everything makes sound itself !
              so you better place it before you need to fall down ( for the backroute )

              That´s okay ! often player can do so - not here - one has to learn by trial and error 
              ( a tip : there seems to be one thing that works but you may not have it in your inventar  )
Edit :  in front of the kitchen window ther are flowers ! i tried to get a chair out of the window - to get out in silence 
          this flower acted like a spiral-spring (Sprungfeder) and made the chair fly-fly-away .

 BUT :    the pictures show a strange/absurd behaviour  : when you take some thing out of your inventar -
              doing so to take it in your hand (to manipulate and place it) just useing it (R) makes sound !!!
               Pic1  sitting = stealth-score 0 ;
               Pic2 using the R-Key/Keyboard you can see  they stood up and started searching !
               Pic3  layed down the Bread to show the stealth-Scores 

stucks  : not sure how quick i will go again - was a hard and long night - we will see 

[Frost_Salamander]

16 minutes ago, Bergante said:

answers in hiding :
 

  Hide contents

point 1 : it´s being hard work and i koed the outside guards - just for the fun to test if possible 
              i pointed it out as example one sees places where he gets later (and my proudness to have done so  )
     2 :     absolutely agree with you - but for i mostly try to sup.ghost i often miss the fun to do so 
              i normally use stuff one gets back or can bring back to where it belongs 
     3 :     on several starts she ´s allways standing there - up to the moment i passed her and opened her bedroom door 
              only since that moment she started going on her Route . in one way this was fine because i could try and
              do anything downstairs whitout being disturbed by her 
      4 :    Yeah ! thought so ( he was stuck ! i watched him longer than 20 sec. )
               so to open the box must have touched him ! what made him start his route once again .
              ( thankfully this made the trick - touching others who where stuck with any vegetables gives suspicious !
                 mostly making such guys walk again is to manupulate them with a crate or so - often works fine  )
      5 :    this is more complicated : when your forced to slip/fall from windows or similar on most places that´s a bit noisy 
              and often gives suspicious ( in some mission even when nobody is near ) 
              so far it´s fair and will also depend on difficultie-settings
              the standard trick is - to first pose a soft touching thing on the ground that reduces noises .
              normally one can let something fall down before one self falls down - here NO - everything makes sound itself !
              so you better place it before you need to fall down ( for the backroute )

              That´s okay ! often player can do so - not here - one has to learn by trial and error 
              ( a tip : there seems to be one thing that works but you may not have it in your inventar  )
Edit :  in front of the kitchen window ther are flowers ! i tried to get a chair out of the window - to get out in silence 
          this flower acted like a spiral-spring (Sprungfeder) and made the chair fly-fly-away .

 BUT :    the pictures show a strange/absurd behaviour  : when you take some thing out of your inventar -
              doing so to take it in your hand (to manipulate and place it) just useing it (R) makes sound !!!
               Pic1  sitting = stealth-score 0 ;
               Pic2 using the R-Key/Keyboard you can see  they stood up and started searching !
               Pic3  layed down the Bread to show the stealth-Scores 

stucks  : not sure how quick i will go again - was a hard and long night - we will see 

okay - I just had a look and indeed I forgot some monsterclip brush in the problem area. Thanks - will note for the next update.  Also - I doubt I will ever optimize a map for supreme ghosters, but are they not allowed to use moss arrows?

[chakkman]

They might be too supreme to do so.

[Baal]

I have not finished this yet, but so far, I like it very much.

Here is a guard walking into some boxes in the art dealers vault because they are not monsterclipped.

[joebarnin]

Wonderful mission! I love the geometry - great design. Good use of all three dimensions. I suck at scaling/jumping moves, so lots of reloads lol. But that's just me. Thank you - that was good fun!

[Knüppelaufdierübe]

Not sure, this has already been addressed, but how are you supposed to read the note in the maid's cell?

[Frost_Salamander]

1 hour ago, Knüppelaufdierübe said:

Not sure, this has already been addressed, but how are you supposed to read the note in the maid's cell?

Nobody else has had an issue, at least that I'm aware of. What exactly is the problem?

[Knüppelaufdierübe]

1 hour ago, Frost_Salamander said:

What exactly is the problem?

I'm probably just missing the obvious, but how do you get out?

[Frost_Salamander]

14 minutes ago, Knüppelaufdierübe said:

I'm probably just missing the obvious, but how do you get out?

Ah...

Spoiler

If you read the scroll under the chair at the top of the pit, it provides a hint.  Basically you need to throw stuff down there BEFORE you jump in. If you haven't done that, you'll need to reload.

 

[Baal]

Some more issues i encountered:

This jump seems to be the intended way to progress (unless i missed something). I found that very difficult and frustrating, only managed to do it once or twice. Eventually I just noclipped across.

Spoiler

I don't know what this guard (sitting on the stairs) is supposed to do, but he repeatedly stood up and immediately sat down again. 

Edited June 22, 2025 by Baal

[Frost_Salamander]

46 minutes ago, Baal said:

Some more issues i encountered:

This jump seems to be the intended way to progress (unless i missed something). I found that very difficult and frustrating, only managed to do it once or twice. Eventually I just noclipped across.

  Hide contents

I don't know what this guard (sitting on the stairs) is supposed to do, but he repeatedly stood up and immediately sat down again. 

Hi.

Spoiler

Regarding your first point, you don't need to jump.  There is a ledge just below where you took that screenshot, and that leads you to other ledges and ropes, etc.

The AI - If he stood up he heard you.  Be quieter, and maybe deal with him.  Blackjack, flashbomb, etc.  You can even sneak past him.  There are some annoying TDM bugs with AI and they do weird things. I can't do anything about that unfortunately. 

 

[Thief Joe]

Hello!  First, GREAT mission!  I have thoroughly enjoyed ALL of your FM creations!  But as usual, I'm stuck - In multiple places!  I cannot figure out how to get to "the other side" of ANY of the barred doors in the tower!  Any help would be greatly appreciated!  Next, I cannot figure out how to get to ANY of the windows via the ropes hanging above the "good" rowboat (the boat that has not been scuttled).  In fact, I can't even get TO the ropes, much less the windows! Getting up and down and in the windows above the rowboat that HAS been scuttled, I have no problem with.  I am hoping once I figure that out (with some help from you?), I'll be able to find Fishend to look for Bromwich.  That is the last objective (that I'm aware of) that I haven't yet accomplished.  A little help, please?  Or a lot?!

[Thief Joe]

Oh!  And the barred door at the top of the steps just above where the "good" rowboat is docked?  Clueless how to get to the other side.  The lock box at the gang's dock - clueless how to open it!  And the barred door at the top of the stairs in the "run down" apartments or whatever the building is where the golden dagger was found.  I'm having troubles with all those as well!  All the help you'd be willing offer will be greatly appreciated!

[Thief Joe]

And the barred door at the top of the stairs at the gang's hideout... that too is a mystery!  So many barred doors!  And no rope arrows to be found!  Challenging... but fun!

[Lzocast]

3 hours ago, Thief Joe said:

And the barred door at the top of the stairs at the gang's hideout... that too is a mystery!  So many barred doors!  And no rope arrows to be found!  Challenging... but fun!

Spoiler

Pretty much all of those require you to come in from above shall we say and open them as exits rather than entrances to their respective locations. As to how you reach the 'entrances'; it's a very mantle/climb heavy FM.

Though I was not able personally to figure out how to reach the necessary entry points in the final area without noclip initially, they are indeed accessible.

Your starting point should be the rope hanging from the balcony near the corner. With your lantern on you can just about make out a ledge next to a protruding window that can be jumped to with some careful positioning. From there you have a walk-able path to the other ropes and such. 

 

Edited June 23, 2025 by Lzocast

[Lzocast]

On the subject of hints, where on earth do we use the: # ANSWERED

Spoiler

Dock door key - I have it and Bromwich is in the none-borked boat; but I cannot for the life of me find any way to open the dock gates. There doesn't seem to be any mechanism or lock on or near the gates. I notice the boat itself is frob-able, but nothing happens when it is clicked on, or when pushing 'use' with the key selected in case that was the trick.

Spoiler

Found the control box. Texture to denote the lock hadn't loaded so I had dismissed it as a weird wooden block in one wall. Reloading fixed that so used key and all was well.

 

Edited June 23, 2025 by Lzocast

[Thief Joe]

1 hour ago, Lzocast said:

On the subject of hints, where on earth do we use the:

  Hide contents

Dock door key - I have it and Bromwich is in the none-borked boat; but I cannot for the life of me find any way to open the dock gates. There doesn't seem to be any mechanism or lock on or near the gates. I notice the boat itself is frob-able, but nothing happens when it is clicked on, or when pushing 'use' with the key selected in case that was the trick.

 

The dock gates are opened via a switch inside a locked box mounted to the wall to the left of the dock gates.   Thanks to your hint, I've now found a way to access all of the doors in the dock area, and now I too have both Bromwich and the dock key.  I'm guessing the boat won't move until the gates are opened.  I'm not going to find out until I've also solved the mystery of accessing the barred doors in the tower.  I think those are the only remaining doors I haven't yet figured out how to access.  So, I'm going to go back and hopefully figure that out before I get Bromwich outta there.  Because the objective list says to do everything else first, and because I can't swim past the gates, I'm guessing opening the gates with Bromwich in the boat is the very last step before completing the mission.

[Thief Joe]

3 hours ago, Thief Joe said:

Hello!  First, GREAT mission!  I have thoroughly enjoyed ALL of your FM creations!  But as usual, I'm stuck - In multiple places!  I cannot figure out how to get to "the other side" of ANY of the barred doors in the tower!  Any help would be greatly appreciated!  Next, I cannot figure out how to get to ANY of the windows via the ropes hanging above the "good" rowboat (the boat that has not been scuttled).  In fact, I can't even get TO the ropes, much less the windows! Getting up and down and in the windows above the rowboat that HAS been scuttled, I have no problem with.  I am hoping once I figure that out (with some help from you?), I'll be able to find Fishend to look for Bromwich.  That is the last objective (that I'm aware of) that I haven't yet accomplished.  A little help, please?  Or a lot?!

UPDATE!  I've now figured out how to access all the windows and MOST of the doors!  The barred doors in the tower still mystify me though.  With Bromwich and the dock key in hand, I could complete the mission now, but... I wanna figure out that tower first!  Any clues would be helpful!

[Thief Joe]

Ok... I have everything I need to complete the mission, but there is one, possibly two places I have yet to access (and presumably rob of treasure!).  The first is "the other side" of three barred doors on the inside of Warwick Tower and one on the outside (from the balcony accessed via the pipe).  And just recently, I've noticed that above the balcony of the art dealers building is yet another balcony that "looks" like it "could" be accessible, and there is a door there also, though I can't tell if it's one that might open or not.  Any clues to these last remaining mysteries - ESPECIALLY the Warwick Tower - will be very much appreciated!

Edited June 23, 2025 by Thief Joe

[Thief Joe]

ANOTHER mystery!  In the tavern/inn there is a switch on the wall next to the door of one of the rooms which you can pass thru to get to an open window.  I have NO clue what the switch does!  When I frob up or down, I cannot see or hear any reaction.  I don't think it's critical to the mission, but... does anyone have a clue as to what it does?