Fan Mission: The Lieutenant 4: A Reciprocal Gambit by Frost_Salamander

[Frost_Salamander]

3 hours ago, CountMorillonite said:

I'm curious about a few things. I was never given rope arrows at the beginning, and there are obvious placements of wooden beams specifically for rope arrows. Did I miss a pickup somewhere along the way? I'm currently at Armoury St. 

Also, I noticed references to the map. I don't have a map either. 

No, there are no rope arrows.  Everything you need to do is climbable.  You can pick up the map from Bromwich's office near the start of the mission.

[CountMorillonite]

I suspected as much regards the rope arrow. Seems every time I thought a rope arrow was required. I found another way.

I don't know how I missed the map.

Having a lot of fun playing this mission

[Keruah]

Saw the new mission of the Lieutenant series and decided to replay the whole thing, because for some reason forgot to played Lieutenant 2. Want to congratulate you with the release. I'll post my opinion in a week I think. 

[CountMorillonite]

Great mission Frost

I understand the complaint that there were too many doors that were locked from the outside, but I have to say that only bothered me until I realized they were hints that you can find a different way to get get to the other side of the door. Having the distinct lock sound was very helpful as well. Once the mission is finished, with all doors unlocked, it's quite easy to go back and forth.

Which is what I have to do because my loot total is very poor. 

Spoiler

There is what I think is a safe above a table where Jalid & Yardley were located. It made no sound so it's not keyed. Must be a button or lever that opens it. Or maybe it's just decorative. 

 

[Frost_Salamander]

2 hours ago, CountMorillonite said:

Great mission Frost

I understand the complaint that there were too many doors that were locked from the outside, but I have to say that only bothered me until I realized they were hints that you can find a different way to get get to the other side of the door. Having the distinct lock sound was very helpful as well. Once the mission is finished, with all doors unlocked, it's quite easy to go back and forth.

Which is what I have to do because my loot total is very poor. 

  Reveal hidden contents

There is what I think is a safe above a table where Jalid & Yardley were located. It made no sound so it's not keyed. Must be a button or lever that opens it. Or maybe it's just decorative. 

 

Spoiler

Look closely at the ceiling above the desk

 

[chakkman]

Spoiler

Is there any way to enter the Treasury Office? Wouldn't want to go too far, and then backtrack for it.

 

[Frost_Salamander]

12 hours ago, chakkman said:

  Hide contents

Is there any way to enter the Treasury Office? Wouldn't want to go too far, and then backtrack for it.

 

Spoiler

Yes there is a window you can enter through on the upper floor. You can't enter the part of the building that has the sign on it though, if that's what you meant.

 

[chakkman]

16 minutes ago, Frost_Salamander said:

  Hide contents

Yes there is a window you can enter through on the upper floor. You can't ever the part of the building that has the sign on it though, if that's what you meant.

 

That's what I meant, thanks.

Nice mission so far. I wasn't sure about the start, but, it gets better and better the more you progress.

[gokudo]

Another surprisingly dense mission that I enjoyed. Only thing was there was a bit too much jumping around which sort of took away from the immersion and the realism IMO but otherwise another welcome addition. 

[chakkman]

17 minutes ago, gokudo said:

Another surprisingly dense mission that I enjoyed. Only thing was there was a bit too much jumping around which sort of took away from the immersion and the realism

TBH, I also found some of the mandatory jumps pretty hard to do. 

I would have liked it better if there had been more climbable surfaces, like ivy on walls, pipes, or even rope arrows.

Edited July 10, 2025 by chakkman

[Frost_Salamander]

None of the 'jumping' was designed to make anything more difficult, and I can only think of maybe one or two places where people had trouble and one of them wasn't even mandatory. Can someone specify what they think the trouble spots were? 

[chakkman]

One thing that contributed to the difficulties, and also being stuck a few times now, is also the darkness of the mission It's significantly darker than some other missions (not even turning up the gamma or brightness really helped), and there are also shadows in some places I wouldn't have expected, as there's light sources nearby.

Spoiler

For example, I'm stuck now at the fishend section of the map, where there's a water way. When I jump from the broken boat to the other "wharf", where there's a guy patrolling with a lamp (another tough jump, as there's very little space to run and jump from, on the boat's borders), there are two locked doors (three, with the small cage at the wharf...), and I can't open any of them with a key or lockpicks. When I swim to the other wharf, on the other end of the waterway, I can only get back through the door with the latch. And, when I get up, using the ropes, I can't get to the two open windows I saw. One is hight up, with a woman inside, which, of course, already heard me from miles away, or through the windows at the end of the water way, where there is obviously a guy patrolling, who also heard me a few times, when I tried to jump on lamps, trying to get up there somehow.

 

Edited July 10, 2025 by chakkman

[CountMorillonite]

3 hours ago, chakkman said:

TBH, I also found some of the mandatory jumps pretty hard to do. 

I would have liked it better if there had been more climbable surfaces, like ivy on walls, pipes, or even rope arrows.

The absence of rope arrows forces you to consider alternatives, which I think was the point here. I also felt that there was supposed to be rope arrows but that I missed picking them up.  It forced me to explore other means to forge ahead, which I found. Again, that was deliberate. Same with the "fastened" doors. It hinted to me that there was something on the other side, but I had to find a different way to get there. It all comes together when you finish the mission. Getting from the end of the mission to the beginning is far easier than getting to the end from the beginning. This is important for those who have to return to collect unfound loot.

There IS one wall pipe that is climbable. I don't think there is any ivy however.

2 hours ago, chakkman said:

One thing that contributed to the difficulties, and also being stuck a few times now, is also the darkness of the mission It's significantly darker than some other missions (not even turning up the gamma or brightness really helped), and there are also shadows in some places I wouldn't have expected, as there's light sources nearby.

  Hide contents

For example, I'm stuck now at the fishend section of the map, where there's a water way. When I jump from the broken boat to the other "wharf", where there's a guy patrolling with a lamp (another tough jump, as there's very little space to run and jump from, on the boat's orders), there are two locked doors (three, with the small cage at the wharf...), and I can't open any of them with a key or lockpicks. When I swim to the other wharf, on the other end of the waterway, I can only get back through the door with the latch. And, when I get up, using the ropes, I can't get to the two open windows I saw. One is hight up, with a woman inside, which, of course, already heard me from miles away, or through the windows at the end of the water way, where there is obviously a guy patrolling, who also heard me a few times, when I tried to jump on lamps, trying to get up there somehow.

 

Some of the jumps WERE a bit tedious. That's always a turn off.  And it was indeed dark. Particularly when you're trying to spot a ledge to creep along. Maybe this is a Ver 2.13 issue with the lighting. I don't know. But I managed to complete the mission and totally enjoyed it. Still can't find all the loot though. When you have verticality like this, there's bound to be an isolated window to burgle or some bird nest teetering remotely.

[Frost_Salamander]

I do usually have my ambient a bit darker than usual.  I find the 'standard' is too bright and, to borrow a term frequently used here, 'immersion breaking'.  There is no reason increasing the gamma shouldn't help though. But... feedback acknowledged.

@chakkman if you're still stuck:

Spoiler

From the rope directly across the broken boat in Fishend, you can get to a ledge that then will take you on a path that will lead you up to the open windows.  The ledge is a bit hard to notice - maybe I should have put a glowing mushroom or some window lighting there.

 

[chakkman]

Thanks, I'll have a look.

Regarding the dark ambient, could just be that we have different monitors, with different gamma etc. I noticed the gamma and brightness in Dark Mod is a bit off as well, as I have a monitor with nearly perfect gamma, and, I need to set gamma to about 0.9, and brightness to about 0.8, which pretty much makes it perfect with the Training mission. Logically, a monitor with perfect, or nearly perfect gamma, shouldn't need any ingame adjustment. Unless the ingame settings were calibrated with a monitor with non perfect gamma.

There are quite a few games now which look perfect in terms of gamma/brightness, and, I don't have to adjust anything, but, there are such games as well where I need to adjust it.

Edited July 10, 2025 by chakkman

[Frost_Salamander]

5 minutes ago, chakkman said:

Thanks, I'll have a look.

Regarding the dark ambient, could just be that we have different monitors, with different gamma etc. I noticed the gamma and brightness in Dark Mod is a bit off as well, as I have a monitor with nearly perfect gamma, and, I need to set gamma to about 0.9, and brightness to about 0.8, which pretty much makes it perfect with the Training mission. Logically, a monitor with perfect, or nearly perfect gamma, shouldn't need any ingame adjustment. Unless the ingame settings were calibrated with a monitor with non perfect gamma.

There are quite a few games now which look perfect in terms of gamma/brightness, and, I don't have to adjust anything, but, there are such games as well where I need to adjust it.

I have a fairly cheap BenQ 4K monitor and keep the gamma at 1.2.  Maybe I've done that so I can see my own missions . But regardless, I understand it's a PITA to have to adjust gamma for every mission.  It did come up in beta but I just decided to keep the original setting, because that was my vision. People actually didn't like the full dark areas where you needed a lantern either, which I found puzzling and ignored.  It just became apparent that there is a baseline that players have become used to I guess.   Personally, I don't like it when missions all look the same.

[chakkman]

Usually, I like it dark, but, if I don't know where I'm going, then it becomes a tad too much...

[snatcher]

I haven't played the latest entry in the Lieutenant series yet but I am looking forward to it 

On the subject of darkness (or lack of depending on preferences) players shouldn't rely on brightness and gamma since it impacts everything, including gui/hud elements. Increasing brightness and/or gamma too much makes the game look ugly.

Since the Tone mapping initiative by @Arcturus and @stgatilov got panned by our most exquisite members perhaps the right solution is an in-game ambient slider players can raise or lower at will in tiny increments. This slider must be dynamic and respect (mapper's) changes between different zones. I would probably place such slider somewhere in the inventory screen. When players click on the slider the inventory fades out to facilitate the adjustment. The slider has a visible mark somewhere pointing to the map's default ambient, that way players can tell where they are vs author's intentions.

A different version of the r_ambientGamma cvar would be required. The new cvar should reset when switching missions or closing the game.

[chakkman]

TBH, I'd rather have FM authors adjust brightness so that it's uniform among missions, otherwise you have to adjust the settings for every single mission, and, you have no uniformity in the game whatsoever. Unless people really like to have to adjust their settings for every single mission. I surely don't.

The Training mission should be a reference, because, there is a dedicated section where people adjust gamma/brightness. Otherwise that section is really pointless, and should be removed, when it's all over the place in the other fan missions anyway.

Edited July 12, 2025 by chakkman

[snatcher]

Brightness, gamma and ambient.

Brightness and gamma are user settings mappers can't (shouldn't) change. My opinion is that players shouldn't feel the need to change these unless real-life conditions change around them (day vs night, lights on/off, new monitor, etc).

What mappers do in their missions is setting a single or multiple "ambient" lights to their maps. We can think of it as "the mood of the map or area". This ambient can change between zones: bright fullmoon outdoors, pitch black sewers, blue ghostly atmosphere, etc. My opinion is that players should be able to adjust the ambient of a mission based on their preferences or current mood (brighter or darker).

You can try this yourself. Set your brightness and gamma just how you like it. Launch this mission, bring down the console and enter, in example:

r_ambientGamma 1.2

The mission suddenly is a tad brighter and the light gem and gui/hud elements remain unaltered.

Mind you, r_ambientGamma is persistent: you have to set it back to 1 when you are done with the mission, otherwise it stays at 1.2.

Edited July 12, 2025 by snatcher

[snatcher]

3 hours ago, chakkman said:

The Training mission should be a reference, because, there is a dedicated section where people adjust gamma/brightness. Otherwise that section is really pointless, and should be removed, when it's all over the place in the other fan missions anyway.

Not only fan missions, all three official missions (Training , New Job and St. Lucia) have different ambient so yeah, ditch it.

[Frost_Salamander]

I've just released a minor update.  I won't link to the release notes as they contain a minor spoiler, but people really want to know they know where to look.  The main issue is making the navigation in the end area a bit friendlier, as lots of players were having difficulty with it.

@nbohr1more it's now version 4, as the version you updated with 'required TDM version' was version 3.  I've included that change in this release so you don't have to do it again.

link: https://drive.proton.me/urls/X6SCH8QDCW#BM9hyzLnjASZ

[nbohr1more]

4 hours ago, Frost_Salamander said:

I've just released a minor update.  I won't link to the release notes as they contain a minor spoiler, but people really want to know they know where to look.  The main issue is making the navigation in the end area a bit friendlier, as lots of players were having difficulty with it.

@nbohr1more it's now version 4, as the version you updated with 'required TDM version' was version 3.  I've included that change in this release so you don't have to do it again.

link: https://drive.proton.me/urls/X6SCH8QDCW#BM9hyzLnjASZ

All set! Version 4 is in the mission database now. Thank you!

[MirceaKitsune]

Good FM with attention to detail. Very intensive platforming, solving some ways you must go is a puzzle of its own. A bit too difficult I'd say, almost impossible without some knockouts and being spotted several times, many spaces are very tight brightly lit with AI are always present so you don't have much room for error. Found a bit over half the loot, must be a lot of hidden stashes I missed. It will be interesting where this goes in the next episode after that little twist.

Spoiler

Poor Alma: I felt sorry for her when reading the journal, but when I noticed she's so depressed she's non-hostile and doesn't even mind a thief breaking into her apartment that was sad

Edited July 17, 2025 by MirceaKitsune

[wesp5]

I'm late to the party because I wasn't aware that another mission had been released without being announced on the beta board ;). A very interesting and very vertical mission, but also a bit chaotic. Even with the map I hardly knew were I was and having more blocked doors than doors you can lockpick was new to me as well! So I rather randomly explored everything and had to noclip and go backwards sometimes to figure things out like several other people did here as well. So this is what I would recommend if you plan another update:

Spoiler

- Extend the intro a bit so that we know who the main character is and whom he works for. I played your other missions too long ago.

- Either place a light on the dark ledge at Fish's End or make the player not slip from the roofs nearby which would be more reasonable.

- Improve the readme of the caretaker so that it is clearer that the moving furniture is about a secret door and not ghosts moving stuff.

- Make clearer what actually happened. This gang just overrun your agency and kidnapped your boss? And who are these new guards? 

Edited July 25, 2025 by wesp5