Fan Mission: The Lieutenant 4: A Reciprocal Gambit by Frost_Salamander

[Frost_Salamander]

4 hours ago, wesp5 said:

I'm late to the party because I wasn't aware that another mission had been released without being announced on the beta board ;). A very interesting and very vertical mission, but also a bit chaotic. Even with the map I hardly knew were I was and having more blocked doors than doors you can lockpick was new to me as well! So I rather randomly explored everything and had to noclip and go backwards sometimes to figure things out like several other people did here as well. So this is what I would recommend if you plan another update:

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- Extend the intro a bit so that we know who the main character is and whom he works for. I played your other missions too long ago.

- Either place a light on the dark ledge at Fish's End or make the player not slip from the roofs nearby which would be more reasonable.

- Improve the readme of the caretaker so that it is clearer that the moving furniture is about a secret door and not ghosts moving stuff.

- Make clearer what actually happened. This gang just overrun your agency and kidnapped your boss? And who are these new guards? 

I'm sorry you found it difficult, but my style (apparently) isn't for players that like a walk in the park. 

Regarding your suggestions (and thanks): 

Spoiler

The last update included increased lighting on that ledge, and also a piece of loot on it. It's pretty obvious now. 

That caretaker note: the moving furniture IS about the ghost.

And about what happened, there is a note that explains the whole thing in the boss lair, which also triggers an objective. Maybe you just missed all that somehow? Did you actually complete the mission? 

 

[wesp5]

56 minutes ago, Frost_Salamander said:

Regarding your suggestions (and thanks): 

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The last update included increased lighting on that ledge, and also a piece of loot on it. It's pretty obvious now. 

That caretaker note: the moving furniture IS about the ghost.

And about what happened, there is a note that explains the whole thing in the boss lair, which also triggers an objective. Maybe you just missed all that somehow? Did you actually complete the mission? 

I saw the loot on the ledge, but maybe the greater darkness of your mission on my system was the problem like it was for several other players. Also the temptation was just too high to use the ropes and I always failed when trying that ;).

So if the furniture is about the ghost, how should we know there is a secret passage? Moving close to any light sources that are out? I actually did this with the torches but overlooked that candle. Maybe add some scratch marks at the shelf?

Yes I finished the mission and yes, they kidnapped him as a prisoner exchange. But why have all the guards been changed as well? Is this some takeover from another agency? Sorry, but as I said, it has been some time I played the other maps. 

[Keruah]

Ok, so I finally went through the mission. Almost. Very close to the finish, need to do some extra steps.

My thoughts are as follows:

1. Very cool vertical mission, with an emphasis on exploration and atmosphere. For some reason, the mission seemed a bit shorter at first. But, then I found another openable window, and another one, and another one, end every single one led somewhere, and it got a bit too mazy too fast. 

2. Got annoyed by the doors that open only from one side. Not critical, but a bit too much for me. 

3. I didn't get the reason for the kidnapping of our boss. I mean, I may have missed some readables but his disappearance didn't make sense to me. I'll replay the last part tomorrow, maybe I'll get it.

4. Overall, not a bad continuation for the series. I just wanted it to be a little bit less frustrating. But, although I'm not a beginner, I'm not a seasoned TMD player too. So, apologies for me wining here.

Cheers

Edited August 1, 2025 by Keruah

[Frost_Salamander]

22 minutes ago, Keruah said:

2. Got annoyed by the doors that open only from one side. Not critical, but a bit too much for me. 

Not sure why this bothers people.  It's not a mechanic designed to frustrate the player.  If you encounter a latched door, there are 3 things you need to understand:

1.  There must be another way forward.  Start exploring! If you don't like that sort of gameplay, well.....
2. Once you do figure out the way forward, you will now have a return path.
3. This eliminates the other way of doing this, which is keys.  Players seem to hate that as well.  Search for threads where people complain about having too many keys in their inventory, key hunts, etc.   Actually, another way is levers that active doors, but that only makes sense with certain types of doors.  Latches work with 'normal' doors too.

24 minutes ago, Keruah said:

3. I didn't get the reason for the kidnapping of our boss. I mean, I may have missed some readables but his disappearance didn't make sense to me. I'll replay the last part tomorrow, maybe I'll get it.

There is a readable that explains it that you should find in one of the final objectives.  The title of the mission is basically named after the 'story'.

 

[Keruah]

13 minutes ago, Frost_Salamander said:

Not sure why this bothers people.  It's not a mechanic designed to frustrate the player. 

Like I said, I'm relatively new to TDM and Thief series in general. Verticality and retracability are something one has to get used to, I have to get used to it. I've opened almost every other closed door, it just took me a bit too long to do that. 

I mean, Foreign Affairs had me doing the same thing, but with moors. So, I'll get used to it, one way or the other. 

Sorry for complaining

Anyway, thanks for the mission, keep doing what you are doing.

Great job!

[Keruah]

UPD: I've finally beaten the story. It took me 10 to 15 minutes to figure out how to navigate the tower and another 10 minutes to find the key, although it was right there

Spoiler

on the shelf above the fireplace

. When I had finally found it, I felt like a dumbass.

A very challenging beast of a map indeed, at least for me.

No bugs encountered. Just a bit of frustration.  

Edited August 3, 2025 by Keruah

[STRUNK]

At some point in the map I thought "why do I have lockpicks"? But progressing further I became to really like your (well thought out) game mechanics. And a very good story and build also! 
Thank you for this great mission, I really enjoyed it.

 

[TerrificTom]

Now this is a good mission. Long, a complex map, and the right amount of difficulty when played on Expert. Very well done. 

However I am stuck... I try to keep a stealth score of zero, however in the area with the foreigner and the kidnapper, the foreigner sits there in high light and just stares at the door. Is there any way of getting past that? I would have used a water arrow bud sadly ran out in the tavern after pinching the lady's purse... 

Also, on my first playthrough attempt I was able to knock out the guards playing cards outside the tavern without being spotted. On my second attempt I can't do that anymore. No idea why

[Frost_Salamander]

6 hours ago, TerrificTom said:

Now this is a good mission. Long, a complex map, and the right amount of difficulty when played on Expert. Very well done. 

However I am stuck... I try to keep a stealth score of zero, however in the area with the foreigner and the kidnapper, the foreigner sits there in high light and just stares at the door. Is there any way of getting past that? I would have used a water arrow bud sadly ran out in the tavern after pinching the lady's purse... 

Also, on my first playthrough attempt I was able to knock out the guards playing cards outside the tavern without being spotted. On my second attempt I can't do that anymore. No idea why

HI @TerrificTom thanks for playing!

Spoiler

There are more water arrows in the armour shop - have you been in there?

Regarding the card players - have you turned off the outdoor light?  There is a switch inside the tavern to do that.  That section is pretty easy to ghost past as well if you don't want to bother knocking them out.

 

[TerrificTom]

On 9/3/2025 at 3:41 AM, Frost_Salamander said:

HI @TerrificTom thanks for playing!

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There are more water arrows in the armour shop - have you been in there?

Regarding the card players - have you turned off the outdoor light?  There is a switch inside the tavern to do that.  That section is pretty easy to ghost past as well if you don't want to bother knocking them out.

 

Thank you! I was able to find the armoury independently in the end... I had totally forgotten about it. 

No luck on the card players though, that loot had to stay on the table

Excellent mission. Hours and hours of fun. Thank you for putting so much time and care into it! 

[CountMorillonite]

I found using "Whistle" to lure someone away to be better than using water arrows (if they are stubborn and don't want to move).  I think that's how I dealt with Yardley. I lured Jalid away, knocked him out, then killed Yardley.

I'm thinking this tactic is frowned upon. Certainly if you're ghosting and knock outs aren't allowed, you can't do this. But then, you can't use water arrows either, right ? Because dowsing a light alerts people.

btw....i used Whistle to dispose of the guards playing cards as well. 

[chakkman]

Whistle? Woot?

[CountMorillonite]

Snatcher's Workshop - Mods for The Dark Mod

Whistle is the one mod I use on a regular basis.

Blow/Ignite is awesome...also used lots

I've done Loop once.

Shadowmark I never used.

Alchemy also never tried

Penumbra..not tried

[chakkman]

I see.

Will be difficult for FM authors to balance future missions, if you have to think about the lots of features added by those mods.

That said, I liked the whistle feature in the Splinter Cell games.

Edited September 6, 2025 by chakkman

[Thiefette]

Congratulations on another enjoyable but challenging (in a few spots) mission.  I admit I had to come here to check on a few spots for moving forward but was mostly just exploring. 
 

Spoiler

I almost forgot about the armoury until the very end, could of used some of those arrows lol. The tower gave me a hard time as I could see rooms but couldn't find the way in for the longest time. Went back to search the accessible areas a couple of times and finally found the secret switch. Had a bit of a hard time getting the couple together, couldn't get her out so dropped in a few chairs first, as I had to drop in to get him in, stacked the chairs and went on my merry way. Knocked out Yardley and missed the objective update, so had to double back and take him out. Finished up the mission with almost all the loot, will probably go back in to search the nooks and crannies and little harder, but done for now.

Thanks for all your hard work and I look forward to more from you.

[CountMorillonite]

On 9/6/2025 at 1:21 PM, chakkman said:

I see.

Will be difficult for FM authors to balance future missions, if you have to think about the lots of features added by those mods.

That said, I liked the whistle feature in the Splinter Cell games.

I didn't respond because I thought others would bring this up.

The Blow/ignite only works for small flames, like candles. Torches can't be blown out. So you would probably see FM authors using candles less and less to counter this. 

Whistle doesn't always work. AI will be alerted, but stay their ground and not venture toward you. It's rare but it happens. I would guess that is deliberate programming by the Authors to "ignore" the whistling mod (if that's possible). So THAT might be happening more and more frequently as new mods are introduced and FM Authors respond accordingly. 

[Tarhiel]

This was a nice one

[irisx]

Second replay, this time around I managed to hit the loot objective and then some! 

But I also run into a frustrating bug.

Spoiler

Having spent almost an hour looting the first area and solving the castle puzzle, the inn letter next to the fishend key was nowhere to be found, preventing the inn objective from completing. I tried noclipping to see if it had fallen through the desk, but there was no sign of it. I've also repeatedly checked my inventory, in case I had picked in up already... but in the end I had to restart 

 

[Frost_Salamander]

3 hours ago, irisx said:

Second replay, this time around I managed to hit the loot objective and then some! 

But I also run into a frustrating bug.

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Having spent almost an hour looting the first area and solving the castle puzzle, the inn letter next to the fishend key was nowhere to be found, preventing the inn objective from completing. I tried noclipping to see if it had fallen through the desk, but there was no sign of it. I've also repeatedly checked my inventory, in case I had picked in up already... but in the end I had to restart 

 

Thanks - sorry that happened. That is definitely a first.  Will make a note for future updates.

[Eirinjas]

Great mission. I'm a big fan of the bolted doors. I have all of the objectives ticked off except for Head to Fishend and Find Bromwich, but I have Bromwich - he's in the boat, the canal is open, but nothing happens when I click on the boat. This is on the hardest difficulty.

[Frost_Salamander]

10 minutes ago, Eirinjas said:

Great mission. I'm a big fan of the bolted doors. I have all of the objectives ticked off except for Head to Fishend and Find Bromwich, but I have Bromwich - he's in the boat, the canal is open, but nothing happens when I click on the boat. This is on the hardest difficulty.

Hi @Eirinjas:

Spoiler

The 'Find Bromwich' objective should have completed when you found him.  There is a trigger the player must walk through when you approach him.  If that didn't trigger, the mission won't complete.  When that triggers, another objective pops up called 'Find out who's responsible for kidnapping Bromwich', and you then have to do that as well.  Did that objective appear?

 

[Arcturus]

There's an interesting bug. If you run, you can go through this wall. Closed windows will block the player:

 

[Frost_Salamander]

1 hour ago, Arcturus said:

There's an interesting bug. If you run, you can go through this wall. Closed windows will block the player:

 

Yeah this issue shows up all over the place and I don't think it's map-specific.  There are other examples I've seen where you can walk right through walls.

EDIT: someone recently posted a video of the player being able to move through a very small opening in a wall.  Maybe it's the same thing?

[datiswous]

I had this isue during beta testing @JackFarmer's HH4. It might be too long ago to remember though.

I posted about it here: 

(second video link works)