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Posted

Congrats and well done, I think you've achieved a great city mission that's a joy to explore!

Posted (edited)

Congrats to the release of this beautiful Mission 
(or as i say , this collection of mini missions )

an accident happened on my first look into it 🤣

Spoiler

image.jpeg.f0dd4c42521b4a3e37a306cb8e6ceeb3.jpeg
image.jpeg.27e2f30acb71f9a5169b1432008ea57d.jpeg
some one is hanging around 
It seems that not every member of the Dockside gang agrees with Jackie the Boots.
or have i forgotten a trap that´s installed ?!

happy greetings 😇 👻 --- 🥰

image.jpeg

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Bergante
deletion of an attachment
Posted (edited)

Very nice sandbox, managed to incapacitate everyone on the level and had some fun screwing around with enemy AI in the process just for lulz. I only wish it had more goals, exactly because of the lack of them I had to entertain myself in my own way.

TBH I wouldn't compare this FM to The Painter's Wife and The Sound of a Burrick in a Room, even if it was inspired by them, but it's quite similar to other TDM fan missions on the streets which is not bad at all.

Edited by I.C.H.I.
Posted (edited)

I took some time to sit on my thoughts on this one, so I forget my exact totals, but I completed this mission in around 2hrs and had ~7000/11000 loot on the middle difficulty setting. I enjoyed my time overall? But a lot of quality issues held me back on this one:
 - The AI really seemed to be out for my blood, and I'm not sure why or how they saw me lots of times. I think at one point I had 6 guards running around the market place. I think this was maybe a portaling issue? Because I managed to piss off guards in neighboring buildings or on different streets often during this mission.
 - The do-not-kill objective didn't work. I discovered this by blackjacking a sleeping commoner who bethesda-physics'd into the wall so hard that she died (a TDM classic, not the fault of this mission), and the objective didn't tick failure. I used this to my advantage for the second half of the mission and made the streets run red because of my previous AI woes.
 - The mission was very flat. There weren't a lot of opportunities to run across rooftops, crawl through sewers, or emerge through vent shafts to new floors of buildings. There was a little bit of all of that, but I was struck by how isolated and one-off those moments felt, and how the streets were perfectly level from one side of the map to the other.
 - I found lots of polish issues in the geometry, including a pretty sizeable gap in the ceiling of a side room in the pumping station, windows not aligned to the buildings they were supposed to be attached to, and a visible seam through the second floor of the manor under a bedroom door.

 That said, I liked the ambition and creativity overall, and that kept me going.

Spoiler

I don't think I've seen a barber shop in a city mission before, nor have I seen the stone gargoyle security cameras. It was a nice treat to have just about every kind of building imaginable - all the usual mainstays and then some! - in one city mission. The location variety reminded me of a T2 mission (I can't recall the name) that took place in a small snowy town and you could break into, like, a bakery and a high end dress tailor. Its always nice to see quirky stuff that doesn't make the traditional "Thief Mission Locale Top 10" list.

I think I'm at like a 6/10 or 7/10 on this mission. Good effort, solid ambition, needs refinement.

Edited by chumbucket91
Posted
4 hours ago, chumbucket91 said:

The AI really seemed to be out for my blood, and I'm not sure why or how they saw me lots of times.

I had the total opposite of this, nobody detected me, I only had some mumble reactions in the statistics. In general when you play such semi-open world missions you need to be extra careful where you walk.

Spoiler

And you can find a hint how to deal with the street lights, though I kept them on just because there is a way around them.

 

5 hours ago, chumbucket91 said:

needs refinement

Disagree, the gameplay is solid and guard placement is fine, it only needs more goals. Lots of big levels like this often have goals too simple or too generic but they need something very imaginative to be more memorable.

Posted

The mission easily goes to my list of replayable missions, which is my second highest rank.

Yes, some vertexes aren't snipped together and there was a single piece of loot I wasn't able to get 

Spoiler

over the barber shop in the box

, but these are negligible issues.

I appreciated the creative elements and little secrets

Spoiler

, such as the moveable wall behind a pallet

and the way you used the light sources.

Thank you for your work.

  • Like 1
Posted
13 hours ago, chumbucket91 said:

The mission was very flat. There weren't a lot of opportunities to run across rooftops, crawl through sewers, or emerge through vent shafts to new floors of buildings. There was a little bit of all of that, but I was struck by how isolated and one-off those moments felt, and how the streets were perfectly level from one side of the map to the other

Believe it or not, an earlier build had lots of rooftop climbing and alternate routes, but poor design on my part meant I had to put them all out of reach to slice the outdoor area into chunks for visportalling/optimization after the fact.

I took my "city streets" approach a bit too literally and directly this time around, and I've realized that the claustrophobia and verticality of some of the best Thief FMs were born as much out of necessity as out of choice.

  • Like 1
Posted
11 minutes ago, Jnon said:

Believe it or not, an earlier build had lots of rooftop climbing and alternate routes, but poor design on my part meant I had to put them all out of reach to slice the outdoor area into chunks for visportalling/optimization after the fact.

It's always better to get something out and learn in the process than to learn and then scrap the output and start again: you did a fantastic job of optimising it in record time and can build your next one with both in mind!

Posted

I'm enjoying the mission - nice to have a town to explore. I'm having trouble in the Eleazar Tower:

Spoiler

The books says to use an arcane rod to turn off the gargoyles, but I can't find this rod. Hints?

 

Posted

Finished! Fun mission - nothing groundbreaking but a nice town to work my way through.

Issues:

Spoiler

Lots of light leakage (through walls and such). Here's an example of what I mean

image.thumb.jpeg.f4bb3c16f2372d69e774a1826d042f9f.jpeg

open this door a crack and the whole area is flooded with light:

image.thumb.jpeg.1a211d457d5237580b0dad27a11962ba.jpeg

When you approach your apartment, the player is supposed to say "I don't remember leaving my window open". This didn't play the first time I got near the apartment. It played the second time. Looks like  your trigger isn't positioned correctly? I think the first time I climbed over some walls - maybe I avoided the trigger.

Opinion:

Spoiler

The main objectives were very basic - there was nothing to drive the story forward, other than collecting loot. Perhaps when you get to your apartment, you discover that the gang who ransacked the place found your necklace. So now you have to track down Jackie's hideout and get your necklace back. That would drive the narrative forward. Just an idea.

 

  • Like 1
Posted
On 6/24/2025 at 3:21 AM, joebarnin said:

When you approach your apartment, the player is supposed to say "I don't remember leaving my window open". This didn't play the first time I got near the apartment. It played the second time. Looks like  your trigger isn't positioned correctly? I think the first time I climbed over some walls - maybe I avoided the trigger

The trigger is directional, so it plays if you're standing at the intersection looking towards the building. I figured it should only play if you're looking from an angle where it makes sense to notice it.

Also the trigger is deleted if you achieve the objective in the apartment, since at that point its a little redundant. Not sure what order you did things in the first time around.

I was more focused on the environment than the story this time around, but yours would have been a good idea, now that I think about it.

Posted
18 minutes ago, Jnon said:

Also the trigger is deleted if you achieve the objective in the apartment, since at that point its a little redundant. Not sure what order you did things in the first time around.

Ah, that explains it. The first time I went into the apartment I forgot to grab the necklace. So that objective wasn't complete. That's why I heard the message later.

Posted (edited)

Fun mission, maybe i would have liked some side quests on the way, but as the player is leaving town, maybe it didn't matter as much? I realized that some of the buildings can just be entered from the main doors, not needing the alternate paths. Maybe this was fine to keep it a little fast paced. Some more of the readables could have been pick-up-able.

Spoiler

Maybe a slightly better clue for where the necklace is hidden would be nicer, since I missed it entirely, and thought the gang already stole it from me.

I loved the:

Spoiler

1. Gargoyle
2. The Jeweller's door bell (I opened the door, drawing the jeweller out and then blackjacking him)
3. The vent clues
4. how the bathrooms changed as per the living conditions of people

I don't usually like sprawling city missions, but this was very right sized.

Edited by bunnyboy
  • Like 1
Posted

As others have noted, the mission doesn't really have a plot hook per se once you grab the necklace. It's basically, "Get out of town", and nothing stopping you from doing just that.

However, the likelihood that you'll have found a random key and/or note hinting at something going on in building _____ generates a sort of, "Well, I'll just check it out on my way out the door", effect. Several hours of following breadcrumbs later and you've traversed most the city. 

I also appreciate the way that most of the major locations have notes or such hinting at how to get needed items if you didn't stumble across them first.

What this actually puts me in mind of rather than a level of say T1 or T2, is more T3's hub zone. If DM supported that sort of a project, this would be a pretty solid example. Big area, lots of little side story type things happening, that are optional extras rather than explicit objectives, that you do on your way to the starting point of the more traditional levels.  

  • Like 1
Posted

This is a splendid mission, thanks Jnon.

Classic thief with a fine big map and lots of sneaking and exploring to enjoy. I can't agree with most of the criticism.

The only thing I didn't like were the irrelevant (and ugly) "street crowd sound FX" that often mar these otherwise atmospheric city missions, but I'm aware that opinions differ on this matter.

  • Like 1
Posted

That was an excellent mission. A big beautiful city, nicely detailed and interesting map. I particularly like the way you modeled the streets. There were some nice tricky parts that were challenging and fun to get through. No doubt I missed a few things, but I managed to leave with 9148 in loot in just under 5 hours.

Just a minor disappointment when

Spoiler

I managed to lock a Watch Station guard outside in the back alley after taking his key, but he was still able to unlock the door and reenter the building. I ended up knocking him out instead. Also, I wish there was a bonus for releasing the prisoners😁 

 

  • Like 1
Posted
On 6/25/2025 at 8:57 AM, Lzocast said:

However, the likelihood that you'll have found a random key and/or note hinting at something going on in building _____ generates a sort of, "Well, I'll just check it out on my way out the door", effect. Several hours of following breadcrumbs later and you've traversed most the city

I'm glad this was your experience, because this is what I was hoping for. One of the reasons I cited Painter's Wife and The Sound of a Burrick In A Room as inspirations is that both have relatively simple objectives on the opposite side of sprawling maps. Theoretically somebody could make a beeline for the objective and skip 90% of the map, but exploring the nooks and crannies on your own initiative is half the fun.

Posted

@grodenglaive Actually, funny story... originally it would have been possible, but pathfinding caused some horrific lag if he couldn't open that door during his patrol, so I had to give him the can_unlock spawnarg. 

Actually, the lag issue might not be so bad since the map got optimized, I haven't tested that. Maybe I ought to consider that for an update.

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