Project Proposal: change lit/selflit/moonlit window texture method.

[Bikerdude]

So I thought I had found a new and BETTER way of creating lit/selflit windows for TDM, but discovered fairly quickly that some window textures are already using this mething, but that unfortunaly the vast majority are not.

The aformerntioned method is that we use the stock material def for the frame (so you retain the diffuse & bumpmap details),  and then only 'blend add' the lit window panes which are a separate texture. An example stock texture that uses this method already - textures/darkmod/window/wooden_frame01/wooden_frame01_lit



What we have above is an overlay of JUST the window panes, and its just this texture that is RGB boosted! I don't know why we HAVENT been doing this in the core mod all this time, and to quote @nbohr1more"Boosting the diffuse is a pretty poor way to achieve that effect." And unfortunately a LOT of the core window textures are using this poor method instead of the window pane overlay method.

Ive already spent some time in establishments of lower affairs  (the line from the gatehouse popped into my head, heh), making overlay versions for frost_salamander for his recently released FM. Please see the zip arcdhive below. @Amadeus has already had a look at and used some, in his upcoming wip - 

- https://drive.google.com/file/d/11168eiBj_m-Lu5d-8FLYUgM7J1MC_92h/view?usp=sharing

So @Amadeus suggested that I list all the window textures that need looking at. I haven't included the ones I have already fixed in the wip archive above - 

• textures/darkmod/window/diamond_pattern02/diamond_pattern02_*** - the lit versions from this series have a diffuse that is basically black, but thankfully the unlit version has a diffuse that can be used.
• textures/darkmod/window/ornate/stained_colourful_dirty
• textures/darkmod/window/ornate/stained_colourful_dirty2
• textures/darkmod/window/pointedtop_big01/pointedtop_big01_*** - there are lit versions in this series, but they are not using any diffuse/bump. So these are perfect to use as overlays as they are.
• textures/darkmod/window/diamond_pattern01_***
• textures/darkmod/window/diamond_pattern_andbars01_*** - So these are good candidates to be used as overlays with some tweaking, but we need a much better diffuse/bump.
• textures/darkmod/window/largesquare01_barelylit - poster child of why this thread was created, all the lit versions of this series are just RGB boosting the diffuse. 
• textures/darkmod/window/roundtop_diamond_pattern01_***
• textures/darkmod/window/simple_square01_***- this series also has very poor cropping on the edges.
• textures/darkmod/window/smallpanels_4w_dirty01_*** - this series has diffuse that is basically black.
• textures/darkmod/window/smallpanels_4w_dirty02_*** - this series has diffuse that is basically black.
• textures/darkmod/window/smallpanels_4w_dirty03_*** - this series has diffuse that is basically black.
• textures/darkmod/window/smallpanels_industrial_mesh_selflit
• textures/darkmod/window/square_pattern01_*** - this series needs a complete overhaul.

Edited July 22 by Bikerdude

[datiswous]

So the proposal is to change all core included windows to the better lit version?

[Bikerdude]

On 7/17/2025 at 1:09 PM, datiswous said:

So the proposal is to change all core included windows to the better lit version?

Correct, but only those windows that RGB boosting the whole diffuse, instead of just the lit panes.

[Amadeus]

Yeah, I really like these new windows and think it will be a worthwhile change. Some of the selflit windows in core TDM are essentially worthless right now because the "metal" part of the window image is unnaturally bright. Is there any opposition to making this change?

[Arcturus]

 

[Bikerdude]

Are you changing the brightness of the window and a light source in front of the window..?

Only crit is the light should never go completely dark etc.

[Arcturus]

Here's with a different table. I modified convexFade table defined in tdm_tables.mtr file:

Spoiler

table convexFade { {
0.0000000, 0.0000000, 0.0000000, 0.0000000, 0.0000000, 0.001, 0.002, 0.003, 0.004, 0.005,
0.006, 0.007, 0.008, 0.009, 0.01, 0.012, 0.013, 0.014, 0.015, 0.016, 0.017, 0.018, 0.019, 0.02,
0.021, 0.022, 0.023, 0.0249307, 0.0498458, 0.0747300, 0.0995678, 0.1243436, 0.1490421, 0.1736480, 
0.1981460, 0.2225208, 0.2467572, 0.2708403, 0.2947549, 0.3184864, 0.3420199, 0.3653407, 
0.3884345, 0.4112868, 0.4338834, 0.4562103, 0.4782536, 0.4999996, 0.5214348, 0.5425459, 
0.5633196, 0.5837433, 0.6038040, 0.6234894, 0.6427872, 0.6616854, 0.6801723, 0.6982363, 
0.7158664, 0.7330514, 0.7497807, 0.7660440, 0.7818310, 0.7971320, 0.8119375, 0.8262383, 
0.8400255, 0.8532904, 0.8660250, 0.8782212, 0.8898714, 0.9009684, 0.9115055, 0.9214758, 
0.9308734, 0.9396923, 0.9479270, 0.9555725, 0.9626240, 0.9690770, 0.9749277, 0.9801723, 
0.9848076, 0.9888306, 0.9922391, 0.9950306, 0.9972037, 0.9987569, 0.9996892, 1.0000000,
1.0000000, 0.9996892, 0.9987569, 0.9972037, 0.9950306, 0.9922391, 0.9888306, 0.9848076,
0.9801723, 0.9749277, 0.9690770, 0.9626240, 0.9555725, 0.9479270, 0.9396923, 0.9308734,
0.9214758, 0.9115055, 0.9009684, 0.8898714, 0.8782212, 0.8660250, 0.8532904, 0.8400255,
0.8262383, 0.8119375, 0.7971320, 0.7818310, 0.7660440, 0.7497807, 0.7330514, 0.7158664,
0.6982363, 0.6801723, 0.6616854, 0.6427872, 0.6234894, 0.6038040, 0.5837433, 0.5633196,
0.5425459, 0.5214348, 0.4999996, 0.4782536, 0.4562103, 0.4338834, 0.4112868, 0.3884345,
0.3653407, 0.3420199, 0.3184864, 0.2947549, 0.2708403, 0.2467572, 0.2225208, 0.1981460,
0.1736480, 0.1490421, 0.1243436, 0.0995678, 0.0747300, 0.0498458, 0.0249307, 0.023, 0.022,
0.021, 0.02, 0.019, 0.018, 0.017, 0.016, 0.015, 0.014, 0.013, 0.012, 0.01, 0.009, 0.008,
0.007, 0.006, 0.005, 0.004, 0.003, 0.002, 0.001, 0.0000000, 0.0000000, 0.0000000, 0.0000000, 0.0000000
 } }

Both window and light materials use this table:

textures/darkmod/window/wooden_frame01/wooden_frame01_lit
{
    glass
    noselfshadow
    
    qer_editorimage         textures/darkmod/window/wooden_frame01_lit_ed
    diffusemap              textures/darkmod/window/wooden_frame01_base
    bumpmap                 textures/darkmod/window/wooden_frame01_local
    specularmap             textures/darkmod/window/wooden_frame01_s

    {
    blend add
    map  textures/darkmod/window/wooden_frame01_lit_overlay
    red 6 * convexFade [ time * .1 ] green 4 * convexFade [ time * .1 ] blue 5 * convexFade [ time * .1 ]
    }
}

 

lights/biground1_convexFade

{
    {
        forceHighQuality
        map        lights/biground1.tga
        red         ( convexFade [Parm4 + (time * (.1 * Parm3)) ]) * Parm0
        green         ( convexFade [Parm4 + (time * (.1 * Parm3)) ]) * Parm1
        blue         ( convexFade [Parm4 + (time * (.1 * Parm3)) ]) * Parm2
        zeroclamp
    }
}

I put two lights in front of the window:

 

[Bikerdude]

On 9/1/2025 at 10:18 PM, Arcturus said:

Here's with a different table. I modified convexFade table defined in tdm_tables.mtr file:

  Reveal hidden contents

table convexFade { {
0.0000000, 0.0000000, 0.0000000, 0.0000000, 0.0000000, 0.001, 0.002, 0.003, 0.004, 0.005,
0.006, 0.007, 0.008, 0.009, 0.01, 0.012, 0.013, 0.014, 0.015, 0.016, 0.017, 0.018, 0.019, 0.02,
0.021, 0.022, 0.023, 0.0249307, 0.0498458, 0.0747300, 0.0995678, 0.1243436, 0.1490421, 0.1736480, 
0.1981460, 0.2225208, 0.2467572, 0.2708403, 0.2947549, 0.3184864, 0.3420199, 0.3653407, 
0.3884345, 0.4112868, 0.4338834, 0.4562103, 0.4782536, 0.4999996, 0.5214348, 0.5425459, 
0.5633196, 0.5837433, 0.6038040, 0.6234894, 0.6427872, 0.6616854, 0.6801723, 0.6982363, 
0.7158664, 0.7330514, 0.7497807, 0.7660440, 0.7818310, 0.7971320, 0.8119375, 0.8262383, 
0.8400255, 0.8532904, 0.8660250, 0.8782212, 0.8898714, 0.9009684, 0.9115055, 0.9214758, 
0.9308734, 0.9396923, 0.9479270, 0.9555725, 0.9626240, 0.9690770, 0.9749277, 0.9801723, 
0.9848076, 0.9888306, 0.9922391, 0.9950306, 0.9972037, 0.9987569, 0.9996892, 1.0000000,
1.0000000, 0.9996892, 0.9987569, 0.9972037, 0.9950306, 0.9922391, 0.9888306, 0.9848076,
0.9801723, 0.9749277, 0.9690770, 0.9626240, 0.9555725, 0.9479270, 0.9396923, 0.9308734,
0.9214758, 0.9115055, 0.9009684, 0.8898714, 0.8782212, 0.8660250, 0.8532904, 0.8400255,
0.8262383, 0.8119375, 0.7971320, 0.7818310, 0.7660440, 0.7497807, 0.7330514, 0.7158664,
0.6982363, 0.6801723, 0.6616854, 0.6427872, 0.6234894, 0.6038040, 0.5837433, 0.5633196,
0.5425459, 0.5214348, 0.4999996, 0.4782536, 0.4562103, 0.4338834, 0.4112868, 0.3884345,
0.3653407, 0.3420199, 0.3184864, 0.2947549, 0.2708403, 0.2467572, 0.2225208, 0.1981460,
0.1736480, 0.1490421, 0.1243436, 0.0995678, 0.0747300, 0.0498458, 0.0249307, 0.023, 0.022,
0.021, 0.02, 0.019, 0.018, 0.017, 0.016, 0.015, 0.014, 0.013, 0.012, 0.01, 0.009, 0.008,
0.007, 0.006, 0.005, 0.004, 0.003, 0.002, 0.001, 0.0000000, 0.0000000, 0.0000000, 0.0000000, 0.0000000
 } }

Both window and light materials use this table:

textures/darkmod/window/wooden_frame01/wooden_frame01_lit
{
    glass
    noselfshadow
    
    qer_editorimage         textures/darkmod/window/wooden_frame01_lit_ed
    diffusemap              textures/darkmod/window/wooden_frame01_base
    bumpmap                 textures/darkmod/window/wooden_frame01_local
    specularmap             textures/darkmod/window/wooden_frame01_s

    {
    blend add
    map  textures/darkmod/window/wooden_frame01_lit_overlay
    red 6 * convexFade [ time * .1 ] green 4 * convexFade [ time * .1 ] blue 5 * convexFade [ time * .1 ]
    }
}

 

lights/biground1_convexFade

{
    {
        forceHighQuality
        map        lights/biground1.tga
        red         ( convexFade [Parm4 + (time * (.1 * Parm3)) ]) * Parm0
        green         ( convexFade [Parm4 + (time * (.1 * Parm3)) ]) * Parm1
        blue         ( convexFade [Parm4 + (time * (.1 * Parm3)) ]) * Parm2
        zeroclamp
    }
}

I put two lights in front of the window:

Which parts would we edit to get a get a semi erratic flicker, never go fully dark etc..?

Edited September 22 by Bikerdude

[Arcturus]

@Bikerdude Use a table that never goes to zero. Another file that has tables defined is lights.mtr

[datiswous]

On 9/1/2025 at 11:18 PM, Arcturus said:

red 6 * convexFade [ time * .1 ] green 4 * convexFade [ time * .1 ] blue 5 * convexFade [ time * .1 ]

Does this mean it loops 6 times after another through convexFade in red color and at the same time 4 times green and 5 times blue ?

Or is it the strength?

[Arcturus]

@datiswous It's strength. Different values for each RGB channel will change the hue. You can probably add those Parm parameters too, I'm guessing for additional control in Radiant (?). I don't know how they work.

[datiswous]

And what does 

time * .1

do? Is that 0.1, so it loops 0.1 x actual time? Just guessing.

 

Edit: I had a topic with some info about tables. Just share it here:

Edited September 9 by datiswous

[Arcturus]

15 minutes ago, datiswous said:

And what does 

time * .1

do? Is that 0.1, so it loops 0.1 x actual time? Just guessing.

That's just speed. You can have different value for each channel for example.

red 6 * convexFade [ time * .7 ] green 4 * convexFade [ time * .3 ] blue 5 * convexFade [ time * .1 ]

 

 

[SeriousToni]

3 hours ago, Arcturus said:

That's just speed. You can have different value for each channel for example.

red 6 * convexFade [ time * .7 ] green 4 * convexFade [ time * .3 ] blue 5 * convexFade [ time * .1 ]

 

 

Disco time ! Don't forget to place the two dancing undead in there like in thief 2!!

[Arcturus]

On 9/9/2025 at 10:22 PM, SeriousToni said:

Disco time ! Don't forget to place the two dancing undead in there like in thief 2!!

[SeriousToni]

In the mission where you break into the city watch station. Throw and mechanical eye over the wall at the start of the mission. It's missing your colourful there though on the graveyard.

[Arcturus]

@SeriousToni I remember, I remember. You might have given me an idea...

[SeriousToni]

16 hours ago, Arcturus said:

@SeriousToni I remember, I remember. You might have given me an idea...

Haha, happy to be your muse. Nice to hear that you too remember that old classic easter egg!