Fan Mission: Year of the Rat

[McPhisto2051]

Congratulations on the mission, I would really like it....

Let's talk about many of the positive things first

- the idea of beeing wanted and free roam is really nice

- the map looks really great

-so many NPCs

 

now things I'll hope that you will fix/improve

- I placed all 16 cheeses in the circles and nothing happened (I even repositioned one which was kicked out by guards)

   after sneaking and running around for 2-3 hours thats really disppointing, sorry

- the NPCs clogg up corridors and won't go away anymore

- they realarm themselves over and over

- the "steamspiders" walk around the whole city, steaming and alarming every NPC

- I think 1 NPC (one of the 2 engineers with glasses) is always alarmed by you.

- you can climb up too many spots that should be unreachable and are only able to fall down (least of the concerns )

- I forgot the crashes but like the next person said, no savrfile corruption just a quick restart was needed.

Edited July 23, 2025 by McPhisto2051

[Braunro]

Played this last night and really enjoyed it. I did have the crash issues occasionally on quick load and a couple times on quick save. Never had a corrupted save though, so it was a minor annoyance. Played on expert and, while I think I did some things out of the expected order, didn't have any real trouble until

Spoiler

the end with the panic in the streets. Seemed like almost all of the mobs were jam-packed in front of the south gate. (While it properly caused mission failure, it was amusing to fire a couple of gas arrows into the crowd.) After watching what would be a fatal meat-grinder irl for a while, I went back through the city which let me find that one of the closed areas I'd given up on was now open. Not having any advance clue that there would be more after returning to the inn, I spent way too much time trying to figure out a way in. Same thing with the apartment balcony, after I found the one area opened on its own later, I kept checking every location that seemed like there should be a way in but that I wasn't able to access after each new "But wait, there's more!" objective. The good news was that going to other areas of the city either drew them away from the south gate or gave them time to unknot and disperse. (Since stealth was no longer a big concern, I did break some windows which may have helped with drawing them away.) I was delighted with the revolving door. I was a little worried it would kill me the first time through but the non-clipping panels alleviated that. Though it does then mean that you can go through it opposite of the spin. I spent too much time on the blacksmith shop as well. Apparently it's just there for story (which is fine), but I kept going back to it looking for what I needed to do there. I hauled every movable object except for the body out of it looking for a cheese circle or something. I couldn't even get a guard to notice the body through the open door. (I was getting tempted to deposit it in the station.) I also had some issues with the ceiling, alerting nearby mobs when I try to mantle but hit the invisible ceiling and my bootheels come crashing down, was annoying. I also found quite a few places I could climb onto that quickly became apparent I wasn't supposed to.

Overall I found this mission to be a real treat.
 

[grodenglaive]

I liked this mission a lot. I am stuck on the placement of the 16th cheese though. 

Spoiler

I'm unable to find the Army Chief or his helmet in order to get the North Gate key (I'm assuming my last cheese goes in there). The guard inside the Chief's house doesn't have the key, so I assume he is not the Chief.  

 

[grodenglaive]

Oh, there is a bit of a problem with AI bumping the cheese out of the circle, specifically the circle located

Spoiler

on the 2nd floor Inn by the staircase. It think the patrolling AI can kick it when walking past (it happened twice). I later found my cheese behind the reception desk on the 1st floor. I put it back closer to the railing but still mostly in the circle and it seems safe there

If you set the "solid" spawnarg for the cheese to 0, it might be an easy fix, assuming if it doesn't break anything.

[MirceaKitsune]

Spoiler

Never had the maid bump the cheese in the inn, for me she always goes around it in the center of the hallway. I wondered if this might be an issue but didn't see a quick solution: "solid 0" and "noclipmodel 1" also disable being able to frob an item, as such if you drop the cheese in the wrong place you couldn't pick it up again.

[grodenglaive]

I just assumed it was the maid, but I suppose it could have been the mice 

[werner]

On 7/23/2025 at 6:54 PM, grodenglaive said:

I liked this mission a lot. I am stuck on the placement of the 16th cheese though. 

  Hide contents

To find the Army Chief, when you're inside your room at the inn, go through the northern door and pick the next one of the building just opposite. But the key to northern gate isn't an issue as long you have not placed all pieces of cheese. (One location is inside the Army Chief's house.) Then, and after you went to south gate, you have to make your way back to him and only then you'll be able to find his key.

 

 

[grodenglaive]

28 minutes ago, werner said:

 

Excellent, thanks. And after much more searching I also found where my 16th cheese wedge goes!   

[grodenglaive]

Finished! Over 7 hours - it was very tricky finding all 16 circles. It was a pleasant surprise to find there was even more gameplay after that. Challenging, interesting map layout, lots of verticality, good looking textures, very original story. Great job.

I didn't have any corrupted saves, but the some of AI were kindof buggy.

Performance-wise there was just one spot that was slow for me - a glitched texture on the shop's glass elevator window that would grind the framerate almost to a halt whenever you looked at it, like it was trying to calculate a million reflections (the very bright spot). 

 

One parting question:

Spoiler

is there any way to save to pink rat? I tried giving it a Health potion, sticking it in the Church's holy water fountain, and even washing it in the pool. All to no avail.

 

 

[Knüppelaufdierübe]

1 hour ago, grodenglaive said:

is there any way to save to pink rat?

Spoiler

I tried giving it a Health potion, sticking it in the Church's holy water fountain, and even washing it in the pool. All to no avail.

 

Spoiler

You probably did the right thing already. In the church, ground floor, the object should clear when you put the mouse in the or hold it near the glowing thing (probably the fountain) in the recessed area.

That's what worked for me. I think, you don't see them awake or anything, they just disappear and the object clears.

Edited July 25, 2025 by Knüppelaufdierübe

[MirceaKitsune]

Glad you enjoyed it! You're likely experiencing the infinite crack decals bug when pushing a movable against breakable glass: This was fixed in the latest development version, it will take some time for the next release when everyone will have it. As for that optional objective...

Spoiler

You put the pink rat in the stoup with the blue water in the church. Unless something broke the trigger somehow, this causes the pink rat to return to life and wander around the church.

[grodenglaive]

18 hours ago, MirceaKitsune said:

Glad you enjoyed it! You're likely experiencing the infinite crack decals bug when pushing a movable against breakable glass: This was fixed in the latest development version, it will take some time for the next release when everyone will have it. As for that optional objective...

  Hide contents

You put the pink rat in the stoup with the blue water in the church. Unless something broke the trigger somehow, this causes the pink rat to return to life and wander around the church.

Okay, I tried that again and it worked this time. Perhaps on the previous attempt I had restarted from a save where I hadn't yet read the child's note. 

[Keruah]

Great mission. Haven't had this much fun in a while. I mean, almost every text is a bit on the corny side, the main plot is insanely fun, a army chief's secret is... unhinged. And the mayor, ohoho, the mayor. Where do I start with that bastard and his diary .

The overall taste I got out of this is fascinating. There was definitely some jank: people marching on tables, the whole map searching for me while I'm on the street. 

A couple of times, I thought that I'm in Skyrim, cause of the way I stole stuff under people's noses.

Thanks for the fun, Mircea!

Edited July 26, 2025 by Keruah

[Keruah]

Ok, so I actually finished the mission. It's a masterpiece full of lovely jank. For me, it had bugs though:

1. When I was on the 4th floor of the store, I stole some pieces under an alarm. Noone saw me, and everyone started running around saying "there's an intruder" and stuff like that. People from across the street sitting at the balcony uh.. jumped off the balcony and started investigating.  

2. The rat monsters didn't run or attack or stand, they lied on the ground mostly, with the exception of two skull wearing onces near the north gate. 

I found 4 secrets out of 6 (I know, where's one more at least), saved the pink rat, but with all of the commotion didn't get the present and didn't find Roland's apartment. 

Pity. 

Overall, and I repeat, an astonishingly fun mission with some fun characters and situations. 

Mulțumesc frumos.  

Edited July 27, 2025 by Keruah

[MirceaKitsune]

Thank you, glad you liked it! Cu plăcere

Spoiler

Stealing the loot on the 4th floor inside the arch triggers an alarm. This makes the store owner his camera and his turret permanently hostile, guards get a temporary crime trigger that expires in a few seconds, while everyone within radius becomes alerted for a while by hearing the alarm.

The giant rats won't attack you because you saved the pink rat: Completing this optional objective rewards the player by making all rats friendly, hinted in the objective description. They still attack guards and other people... usually, AI can be stupid about noticing enemy AI so fights between them may take a while to happen.

The present is triggered later after entering the secret apartment. Look up for a round balcony in the city hall yard, the one on the building opposite of the church across the starting gate. You're meant to use vine arrows to get there, the door only opens after the rats transform so do everything but the final objective first.

[Marbrien]

I finished this on Expert. I wanted to like it, and it’s close to being a classic, but in my opinion it falls short in its present state.  I don’t know if you are considering a new version, if so here are my thoughts.

1. Firstly, there is the serious framerate issue which I and a number of other players experienced.  I had to abandon the FM on the laptop on which I normally play TDM FMs with no problem, and use instead a new high spec music PC on which it worked OK.

2. I think there are way too many AIs. Reducing the number may help with problem 1. 

3. The exteriors look good, but some interiors need to be more spacious and less cluttered, so AIs do not block the player’s passage and do not climb on tables, walk off ledges etc.

4. It was sometimes difficult to tell who I could blackjack and who I couldn't. I would prefer less or no restrictions on blackjacking, and more opportunities to disable security cameras and external lights.  This aids exploration and reduces reloads.

5. If someone sees you doing something illegal, and they go hostile, fine.  But making all AI of a certain type hostile by collective telepathy just because you entered a building is implausible, and so is having them all forget by collective amnesia as soon as you step outside again (although that is rather amusing). 

6. Having some secrets only available at a time in the game when everyone is hostile and charging around the streets can be frustrating.  BTW, I didn’t find my new friends were much use to me at that late stage, apart from the one by the north gate they all seemed to have been killed. 

7. Some readables were too long.

8. A couple of times I had the mission fail screen, but none of the objectives had a red X, and on at least one occasion I was able to continue.

Some people like some of the above (eg the large number of AIs), and have said it is already a masterpiece, but I think this really is an example of when less could be more. 

Edited July 27, 2025 by Marbrien

[MirceaKitsune]

Thank you for the interesting insight. Like I said I made some design choices from the start that can't be changed now and may have not been all good: I went with a small box so I could add a lot of detail to a smaller area including large crowds of AI, as well as using the building modules exclusively for architecture. This made the FM and especially interiors rather cramped and increased issues with AI getting stuck... while I hoped the clumped buildings help with portals and performance, the use of so many models seem to slow it down a lot even with LOD models. This isn't the only FM with such problems and is relatively easy compared to many missions I faced, some problems would need to be solved by the engine if ways of improving them are ever found.

The no kills and no KO objective for civilians were added on the basis that by default almost everyone is friendly: The only exception is thugs which always hate the player, other than that guards and builders only get upset if you trespass into their territory or steal from them... both can be KO'd, civilians can't but they're only hostile in a handful of cases which should be a very tolerable challenge. Only guards can become permanently hostile early on... it's not telepathy but as explained by some of the readables, they communicate with each other so if one guard sees someone committing crime all guards are informed immediately.

Some secrets are secret because they're unlocked later and harder to find while posing a little challenge to get to. Readables are longer since this was meant to be story and environment oriented, where everything tells a story with world detail adding to it... a larger map has the same amount of readables just that they're more dispersed and you spend more time navigating the world. As for that unexplained fail screen it's very strange and sounds like a bug, the failing objective should definitely have an X and it should be obvious what happened.

[irisx]

Just to report back on the FPS issues, for me the mission became completely unplayable (<3 fps) after about half an hour (and 7 pieces of cheese) of gameplay. Turning everything video-related to minimum doesn't seem to make any difference whatsoever, so I'm beginning to suspect that something is progressively chewing up CPU cycles.

2.13 LInux + nVidia 3060

[snatcher]

Really sorry to report TDM crashed several times and at some point I got my fps down to 5 and I cannot continue playing.

[MirceaKitsune]

31 minutes ago, snatcher said:

Really sorry to report TDM crashed several times and at some point I got my fps down to 5 and I cannot continue playing.

I understand, sorry myself for having no idea what's going on: I tested and played this for hours on end, apart from slow FPS in some outdoor areas (meaning slightly below 60) I never caught any of those crashes or extreme slowdowns. All I can think of is if anyone's running a modded version of TDM, some mods may be interfering with something in this FM, I run vanilla (latest dev snapshot) so maybe that's why I never encountered them.

[snatcher]

No, no mods. Vanilla 2.13 + Windows + GTX 1060.

[MirceaKitsune]

Maybe Windows and / or Nvidia specific then, I'm on Linux / amdgpu driver. No idea sadly, unless a developer wishes to investigate the cause can only be guessed.

Edited July 27, 2025 by MirceaKitsune

[snatcher]

This was the root cause of my low FPS:

  Hide contents

On my first playtrough I heard some weird screams near the starting point and never found the source of those screams, but now I nocliped through that place where they were and yep, there is a monster closet. But some of the population inside it was dead and violently twitching against the floor. Are they supposed to be like that by design? If not, then what could kill them? Only physics comes to mind, in case they're too close to the floor and clipped through it or their containment is just too small for such a huge crowd. Also there was another monster closet for the guards and they were in alert state for some reason, but I used notarget so I wasn't the reason for sure.

Possible solution for fixing the crashes would be to make the monster closet bigger and with enough space between the entities, also put it somewhere outside the level just in case and maybe make them all inactive if possible. In such a cramped room it is not good for them to move around and push each other, eventually collision detection may fail and we all know how bad it is in TDM.

You must do as @I.C.H.I. says.

[snatcher]

Spoiler

I started a new game and watched things unfold.

Everybody is cool but I made noises and guards got alerted. Monsters sometimes clip through walls and guards see them and attack. It takes time for a monster to die but monsters start dying eventually. The more monsters dead the more twitching against each other. It is no surprise that after a long time collision calculations take a toll on the mission.

 

[irisx]

@snatcher 

Spoiler

Nice catch. I visited the monster closet and sure enough there was enough mayhem going on to cause corpse shaking and multiple close contacts between moving NPCs. As an explanation for the slowdown it would also fit the observation that after it occurs, video settings seem to make little or no difference.

I am a bit sceptical however, since in my case there were only 6-7 monster corpses shaking around and just close contact between NPCs, could the ensuing collisions be enough to block an entire CPU core?

OK, did the obvious and killmonster'ed everything in the slowed-down save. FPS went through the roof throughout the city, so in my case it is a combination of tracking (and to an extend, rendering?) living and dead (un-living?) things that chokes up the CPU.

Edited July 28, 2025 by irisx