Dropping a key

[Wellingtoncrab]

5 minutes ago, datiswous said:

Can you give an example of what someone could do in such situations? It seems to me the only way around is mod it if you really want to drop the key.

That would presume the only way past an obstacle is to unlock it. Sometimes this is the obviously the case if the key has been placed specifically to gate progress the mission. Even then people find creative was sequence break these types of games all the time. See crate stacking, or LEM climbing in Deus Ex, etc.

But a lot of time an area is going to have multiple exits. Some may be reachable in ways the designer never really intended. 

I am merely drawing a distinction between the supreme ghosting ethos and the desire to drop every key because ghosting comes up in the thread. My understanding is if you are supreme ghosting, the philosophy is you make your attempt with a mission as it is designed.

But boilerdunce does not explicitly say that is what he is even doing. So as I mentioned at the end of my post if it’s really hampering his enjoyment of the game then I guess modding it is the way to go.

It’s a separate topic but I frankly caution blanket modding the  entire game, as I think it’s not widely understood that FMs themselves are basically already mods.  You’re modding mods. You should not take the assurances of game mod authors regarding mission compatibility, and frankly you are getting a lot more than just QOL improvements if you install something like Wesp’s ”patch”.

Imo the missions I release will never be compatible with mod packs, and will always come with an advisory against using them and to use them at your own risk. It’s a pain but you’re better off making changes at the fm archive level imo.

 

[Klatremus]

@datiswous I think what he is referring to is finding a way around taking the key in the first place. If a key can't be dropped, I often look for extensive ways to circumvent having to take the key, as there is also the principle of keeping a clean inventory for Supreme Ghost and not pick up what you don't need.

If none of the keys can be dropped, it certainly becomes easier for Supreme, but I often like it better when they are droppable. It seems more realistic and it feels more complete for Supreme.

Edited September 25 by Klatremus

[snatcher]

On 9/23/2025 at 7:24 PM, kingsal said:

[...] this will allow players to get into an unwinnable state without them knowing it. [...]

That's correct.

Time ago I created a mod for personal use that allows dropping undroppable keys and readables but because of the reasons explained in this topic I didn't want to expose casual players to "unwinnable states" and I didn't include it in the Modpack and I never got around publishing it anywhere.

I guess it can have its home here?

Find attached to this post the DROPPABLE ITEMS MOD. It allows dropping undroppable keys and readables.

Use at your own risk!

z_droppable_items_mod_v1.0.pk4

[wesp5]

Hm, maybe I should add the readables and tools to my patch as well. It's all about more realism anyway and I don't believe you can ever drop an item by accident, so it's the player's own fault if they mess their game up.

[datiswous]

I think you shouldn't, because your mod is a multi-mod, so if players want some features, they also might get features they don't care about. That's still kind of ok, when it has no gamebreaking implications. 

I personally think that if you make a mod you should focus on one topic at least and keep it at that. Another mod can then focus on another feature. If someone activates such mod, they know what they're getting.

Edited September 26 by datiswous

[ERH+]

I don't see option for removing key after use, like in original Thief. Did I miss something, becouse there are definitly situations when "key" would get stuck in "door". Something like a burner to cut a chain  in Hazard Pay iirc?

[datiswous]

I think some missions might give you that option, but the default for mappers is set to not possible to drop.

[ERH+]

I mean in editor: "remove_after_use" "1" for key entity. I don't see this kind of spawnarg available.

[datiswous]

I guess there isn't? Some use their own scripted solution:

 

[demagogue]

It's probably been mentioned many times before, but one alternative is to have a key ring, so that all keys are combined into one inventory slot that matches any key on the ring to a door when it's used. That would resolve the main issue behind people wanting to drop keys, which is to avoid having a cluttered inventory. I think someone's already made a key ring function, but it's still not standard. 

Edit: You could do the same thing with a folder for readables. The idea is that there's one inventory slot for the whole collection, and then when it's used in some way it could open up a 2nd level to see (and in the case of readables select) the individual items. 

[wesp5]

Didn't Obsttorte make a keyring long ago?

[datiswous]

Well, he made:

Which I think could be used as a nice way to describe the keys that are in the keyring.