Crystal Arrows

[Springheel]

Since we've got the fire arrow and now are working on the water arrow, seems like it's time to get the crystal arrow model in-game. It's sitting on CVS, though I don't know if it's a .lwo or not. Anyone want to volunteer to take it on? We'd need four different textures for the crystal part (one for each element).

 

Concept art: http://www.mindplaces.com/darkmod/concept%20arrows.jpg

 

Model is on the ftp site under models/arrows

[sparhawk]

Rope arrow as well, please.

[Springheel]

We don't have a rope arrow model yet. I've just updated the concept art: http://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?showtopic=2479

[BlackThief]

I'm working on the water-crystal texture atm.

[oDDity]

I'll do a rope arrow.

[BlackThief]

I tried to do a texture for DO's crystal arrow, but I couldn't come up with anything satisfying. I'm still simply in love with the good-old T1/2 crystal design I fear that's probably a little bit too close to the original:

[oDDity]

It looks fine to me. We should have some sort of particle effect on it in the game though.

[New Horizon]

I agree. It looks fine.

 

I think we had thrown around some ideas, months ago, about either having what looked like water bubbles within the crystal or a barely noticable drip of water sliding off the tip of the water arrow when it is fully drawn back.

[Darkness_Falls]

Or maybe a blue arrow streak as it flies through the air!! j/k. Had to throw that T3 reference in for fun. Looking good so far

[Springheel]

I agree, I think it looks fine. We'll need some kind of particle effect though, definitely. I like the 'bubbles' idea.

[oDDity]

How are particle effects applied in doom? Are they attached to textures? The effect will need to be applied to the arrow in the bow animations as well as the world object arrow.

[Springheel]

I'm not sure exactly, but a number of the default Doom weapons had particle effects (the plasma gun for instance) during the weapon animations, so it is possible.

[Darkness_Falls]

Couldn't the crystal part just be hollow, but filled up with water? Then that water would have bubbling particle effects properties applied to it or something. Basically, it's just a miniscule ocean of water trapped inside a transparent object.

 

I know water effects (like in a sea, ocean or channel) can be a hit to the CPU, but water arrows are so small that there wouldn't be a noticeable impact to frames per second, imo.

 

But I'm not a modeller, so I don't know if this would work.

[oDDity]

I think we should disregard the water crystal idea completely and make them a real concept.

All it requires is a water balloon type holder filled with not water, but a gelatin type substance which would not quickly splash and drop to the floor, but more slowly ooze and smother the flame. The balloon is burst by the arrow shaft on impact.

This is perfectly realistic, and far more acceptable than a stupid crystal, which works by 'magic and stuff'

[Ishtvan]

Let's just say it's a non-Newtonian fluid that can be compressed a lot, and it happens to look a lot like water splashing out when it bursts.

[sparhawk]

LOL! That is a very good explanation.

[Darkness_Falls]

I think we should disregard the water crystal idea completely and make them a real concept.

  All it requires is a water balloon type holder filled with not water, but a gelatin type substance which would not quickly splash and drop to the floor, but more slowly ooze and smother the flame. The balloon is burst by the arrow shaft on impact.

This is perfectly realistic, and far more acceptable than a stupid crystal, which works by 'magic and stuff'

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Dang, man, you keep trying to fix stuff that isn't broken! Hehe. It's obvious we are diamaterically opposed in each other's thinking sometimes. Can't you just let us Thief-droolers enjoy a mod that's like Thief? LOL You and your realism.

 

I'm sorry for enthralling myself in the Thief universe and loving the sights, sounds, realism and magical elements of Thief all coming together in a unified vision of splendor. I personally liked hearing the glass crystals shatter into tiny shards -- dispersing waters of plentiful quantities onto the flickering flames before me.

[oDDity]

No, I can't.

More reasons for using the arrow I describe above are that it would be cheaper than a magic crystal, being nothing but a wooden shaft and a sack of gelatin, it would make less noise, and it would make less mess. Water splashes all over the place and collects in a huge puddle on the floor, it also make a huge hissing noise since the total surface area is so great during the initial splash.

Gelatin stays together, and has a much smaller surface area while it slowy smothers the flame torch, and would make hardly any noise at all. A much smaller amount would be required and it wouldn't make any more than a few drips on the floor.

 

I can't see any reason at all for using some nonsense water crystal arrow, given the arrow I've just described. which is superior in every concievable way.

[oDDity]

Crystal arrows are not required at all, in fact.

Fire arrows are just explosive arrows, they could easily be made in the real world. Nosiemaker arrows are not magic, moss arrows need no magic either - and frankly it'd pretty pathetic magic that just makes some moss spring out of an arrow head. All that's required is a little clockwork spinning mechanism in the arrowhead, which scatters the compressed moss around. We've already made a realistic rope arrow in another thread.

I say that all of these arrows should be designs of the inventors guild, and not the product of magics.

It;'s much more fun coming up with concepts for these new and all different arrows, than a bunch of boring old crystals, which all look the same but with a different colour.

[sparhawk]

Where exactly did you come up with a realistic rope arrow? I have yet to see one.

[oDDity]

It'd work. You're just saying 'it wouldn't' without anything to back up your words. Certiainly a powered bladed screw could bore itself into a piece of wood. The only question is where it's getting the power from, and there are several possibilites for that.

It's not impossible, and that's all you need to know. I guarantee if you got a bunch of inventors together, they'd come up with a working prototype of a rope arrow.

[sparhawk]

The problem is NOT that the arrow wouldn't burry itself into the wood. The problem is that you can NOT attach the rope in such a way that it deploys on impact AND to make this rope usefull enough to actually climb it.

 

If you try to throw a grappling hook you will realize that the connected rope is severly hampering the flight of the hook itself. Any usefull length of rope will change the flight characteristics in such a way that the rope arrow is pretty useless for such a bow. You would need a catapult for a reasonable distance to shoot it. That's why you need to include the rope into the arrow, but then you have the problem of size again.

[oDDity]

I've already said it would be wound up inside the hollow shaft, it would already have spring energy to start with, and a small pusher disc worked by hydraulic pressure recieved from the impact of he arrow could push it out the rest. THe flight would not be affected, and only thin cord is required to hold a mans weight. I'm holding some really thin cord right now which would easily hold my weight and would wrap up nicely inaside a hollow arrow shaft.

All it requires is a little thought.

[Ishtvan]

One advantage of water over gellatin is that water evaporates over time, leaving no evidence that the torch went out due to foul play. Gellatin would leave lots of goo on and around the torch until someone noticed it and cleaned it up.

 

If the enemy can go back and figure out what torches you put out after the fact, they're that much closer to figuring out the exact path you took thru the place, and figuring out your MO in general. I would think that a thief would not want that, even after they had escaped with the loot.

[oDDity]

Why would you care if they worked out afterward which route you took throiugh the building. YOu'e hardly goign to be hitting the place again for a long time, if ever.

I'd say the reduced noise, reduced initial mess and the cheaper cost would be far more of an advantage to the thief than whether or not people could work out which route he took - which wouldn't be that easy to anyway in most situations.