Menu/Gui Concepts (Loading/Startup)

[pakmannen]

If it's only for the startup screen, there's no need for a clock or any animation.

The startup screen is the only one that's visible for more than a few seconds (well at least on a decent computer) and as I said, it will also be the default mission loading screen, but the author should be able to easily replace (or if we go that way, modify) it.

 

@Spring: How large is it?

[SneaksieDave]

No problem with it being a clock, in fact, I love the clock. It's just a question of the loading process being bound to the second hand. That, I think, is probably not a good thing. I think the clock should just ominously grind along, in a hypnotic, and haunting manner, while progress is indicated in another way.

 

This is of course in regard to whichever screen is appropriate.

[drumple]

i like the idea of a small clockhand rotating once to indicated full loading, it can be just an animation of a clock

and a loading bar at the bottom, but the loading bar seems to doomish to me..

 

also another thing to consider with an animation ( which i have no problems with ) is the size of it, to make the

clock look good, i would think it will have to be 512x512 in size.. as far as i understand it the roq animations

that can be displayed with a shader in doom3 have to be in powers of 2.. 128x128.. ect.. so the size of

the animation could well above 10 meg or so... maybe not.. im not shure.. as there will be a point where it

can loop smoothly.

 

but having the game load data for a mission, plus stream the video can slow down the loading times on very

large levels.. its just a thing to consider.

[sparhawk]

Devil's advocate: does it make sense that it be a clock, and not some kind of pressure valve, gear, machineworks, etc? Clock hands don't tend to stutter, freeze, jump forward, freeze again... the way the loading process does. It leaves the door open for people to think, "yeah, real good clock there, TEE-DEE-EMM. Sure isn't Swiss!"

 

Also I think that some gears are much more interesting than just a clock.

[drumple]

i admit the way it looks presently doesnt offer much... but im trying to mock up a more noticable concept

which i hope will show that it could work out well, which can pave the way for an animated one which will

look nice with softer shadows.

[SneaksieDave]

If it's a clock, it could be something whiz-bang complex that makes sense as a progress meter. For instance, the clock ticks normal time, which causes little simplistic clockwork puppets to go around a track, shoveling sand into an hour glass, and the sand height is the progress. That way, it's both a clock and an asynchronous machine.

 

Something like that. It's just a quick idea.

[oDDity]

FOr the startup screen, something simpler I think.

HEre's an animated version

Not sure if we should put 'the dark mod' on the start up screen as well. I think probably we should. At the top left would fit nicely here.

This would do for the misison loading screen as well with the addition of a progess meter of some kind.

[sparhawk]

That looks almost what I also had in mind. Maybe you could add some swinging pendulum or something to make it a bit more interesting. Currently it is a bit uniform. But I like the direction it's going.

[drumple]

whoah.. now that looks decent odd.. something like that would really look nice on the mission/loading screen..

what program you use to animate? lightwave?

 

also.. i mentioned that a progress bar is to doomish.. but i spoke to soon.. i can see that a progress bar of

some style would fit into that sort of scheme well.

 

and about the roq's.. i read in the doom3world forums where they have to be in powers of 2 to play in doom3

guis.. but im hoping that isnt true.. otherwise it would be a pain to make something like that work.

 

im going to check more into that, but from what i can see.. its a very simple thing to add video.

[SneaksieDave]

To chime in again: Looks great - that set of gears could certainly be powering some kind of slowly sliding machine piston, which is the progress meter.

 

My only "but something's missing" feeling has to do with it being flat, non-3D. If similar gears were turning in the background behind this set of gears as well, in opposite direction perhaps, it would probably add a lot to the look.

 

Now, if this is the mission-loading screen, will the clock idea still be used for the TDM startup screen? The mockup (I believe the clock was 'borrowed' from somewhere?) was quite stunning - with development and the TDM touch, it will be a feast for the eyes.

 

 

Edit: I believe the gear movement is the opposite of what it should be - the smaller gears are going very slow, and the large gears are going faster - for every small gear tooth that passes, several of the largest gear teeth pass. But if this was just a concept, nevermind!

[Springheel]

I far prefer the original clock idea to yet another gear design. Is there any thief-related FM menu that *didn't* use gears as a theme?

[oDDity]

The clock doesn't work. The mixture of 3d animated clock in the centre of a 2d background makes no sense. They don't gel together properly. It's best to keep a 2d feel to the entire screen.

I don't see the differnce between bare cogs and a clock anyway, the clock is full of bloody cogs.

The 3d clock was my idea in the first place, so I have the right to withfraw it.

I can spruce this up a bit with more backgound cogs and maybe a pedulum so it''ll be more or less clocklike anyway, but all in 2d, which give a far tighter feeling of choesive design.

It's done wiiht after effects, drumple, a very useful app for this sort of thing if you can get a hold of it. I seem to have a copy of every graphics app in existence, going back 4 or 5 versions.

[oDDity]

animation - Play it full screen, then you get the full in-game effect.

For the startup screen, there wouln't be the loading bar obviously, and for the misson loading screen, no text, except if you want to put in the name of the upcoming misson maybe, or a quote or something.

I went a bit overboard wiht the pendulum design, trying to make it too leet looking, I'll tone that down a bit.

 

[sparhawk]

With the pendulum I was more thinking about something that is much bigger and ghostly and swings acrros the entire screen. Not neccessaerily related to the gears. And much slower. More like a stately pace.

[Springheel]

The mixture of 3d animated clock in the centre of a 2d background makes no sense. They don't gel together properly. It's best to keep a 2d feel to the entire screen.

 

The background of the original wasn't 2d, it was 3d. That's what I liked about it. Screens with no depth tend to be less interesting.

 

Your latest version doesn't look bad--the overlapping helps create some depth. I'll have to wait and see it animated (won't load here at work).

 

I still prefer the city/tree motif of the original though.

[SneaksieDave]

Oh fuck yeah, that's sweet. I still think the progress meter as an extending piston near the bottom would be great. Perhaps it'd have to be added overtop, as it couldn't be part of the animation. Not sure how that would work out with lighting...

 

I thought the city/tree thing was for an options screen? I'll have to look back at the concepts again, but I agree - I wouldn't want to lose that either. I think that works as Options, something stationary you're looking at, while the gears/clock/something moving works best for progress, a working action, such as a loading screen.

[pakmannen]

@Oddity: Not that bad, the overall layout is good, but the graphics are lacking. The borders are (dare I say it?) ugly, and the gears just looks like something that was embossed in photoshop. Personally I think your take on the clock theme (with the pulsating black edges and that) is way superiour to this. As I said, I do like the layout. It's very Da vinci. I don't think that's nessecarily thiefy though. The forest / city thing feels more thematic.

 

@Sneaksie: How could you think the city/tree version was the options screen? Does anyone actually know what's going on here? This is the LOADING/STARTUP thread dammit.

 

Seriously, if people don't know what they're talking about, it would be good if they read up before posting an opinion. Please?

 

As far as the clock is concerned, that was not your idea Oddity, it was your screensaver. The idea came long before, it was even in early menu concepts. Clocktower. Remember?

 

The reason for the clock being in the STARTUP screen was, as I stated when it first was presented, it being supposed to be our logo. You know, the one with the gear and the title across. The clock/title combo is a just a larger version of that, with a clock PLUS gears (you all saw the animated version of this concept some months back) to make it more interesting (and I think a clock is a logical thing to have in a loading screen but hey, that's just me)

 

For clarity, I'll post the previous animated versions:

Version 1 18megs (Yes, I suck at video compression)

 

Edit - Damn, I see oddity has removed his version. Bah.

 

Edit 2 - My opinion on clock hands tied to loading: I'm with Sneaksie here. Just let them spin around. I don't think they need to be tied to the actual loading.

[SneaksieDave]

@Sneaksie: How could you think the city/tree version was the options screen? Does anyone actually know what's going on here? This is the LOADING/STARTUP thread dammit.

 

Seriously, if people don't know what they're talking about, it would be good if they read up before posting an opinion. Please?

I is sooo stoopit. I don't keep track of every piece of concept art, and refresh multipage threads that go back beyond November in my silly dumb head.

 

My feeling is that the tree/city screen would be better as an options screen. This thing is moving, because loading is action, progress. It's also darker, both in visuals and tone, which gets you ready for a mission. The former is a static image (aside from the clock, if used), and good for a screen where you're "doing stuff," like setting your options.

[drumple]

whoah.. now that clock loading screen looks nice... simple and to the point.. and it is for just initializing the

mod anyways.

 

as for that style of artwork, i think it totally suits the mood of the mod. odd's new animation with the pendulum

looks incredible, lots of movement in there... and if that could be the style for the loading mission screen then it

could be kept as is, in fact.. there could be a few of them for loading missions like that depending on the style

of the mission.. just an idea.. but if its a builder style map up next, that one could be shown on loading it, if

its a sort of just hunt and steal map with no defined enemy then it could be in the same style but different

graphics to represent that.

 

like in cod, sometimes when i forgot where i left off in a campaign and loading a saved game, it would show

a loading screen of either british, russian or the americans.. different loading screens could be used in that

style.. so if an fm author made a map that was dependent on one faction he could choose the style of loading

screen to best suit it.

 

just an idea.

[Springheel]

My feeling is that the tree/city screen would be better as an options screen.

 

I don't know how it could be an options screen, since there's no room for any text. Besides that, we already HAVE a template for the menu screens.

 

So here we are again, redoing menus that people agreed that they liked a few months ago.

[SneaksieDave]

To clarify: between it being loading or options, I think it's better as options. Or something else altogether. Mainly by elimination - it's not as good a loading screen, for reasons listed above. But also, because the tree/city scene is good, and I'd hate to see it not be used at all.

 

It has as much room for text as any other image. I was specifying if the clock was included at all (meaning it could be left out, and then there's plenty of space for the image being a background). Once ink dries on an idea doesn't mean it can't be changed.

 

Ugh, anyway! That whole side of the debate is almost a strawman, because it's not even the point. The point is that oDDity's gears and/or a clock are better for loading. They show movement, suggest action/progress, build anticipation.

 

Having jumped through several flaming hoops, hopefully this one person's opinion is now okay?

[Springheel]

So now what. We have to have yet another vote on which concept to use?

[SneaksieDave]

We probably better, since at this point, it's not clear what is what and who's for which. :-\

[sparhawk]

For clarity, I'll post the previous animated versions:

Version 1 18megs (Yes, I suck at video compression)

 

It's definitely better. And the pacing is exactly right.

[sparhawk]

I is sooo stoopit. I don't keep track of every piece of concept art, and refresh multipage threads that go back beyond November in my silly dumb head.

 

But this is expected from you. You have to memorize everything or you will loose stupid arguments...