Elite Guard Turn Left 90 Degrees

[oDDity]

I think it's better to argue now and tell him where he's going wrong, so he can learn from the mistakes and correct it to future animations, rather than say nothing, so he makes the same mistakes repeatedly.

[sparhawk]

[ Inspector Clouseau] ...but that es what I 'ave been zaying you fewl. [/ Inspector Clouseau]

 

He said he updated the animation ...

 

I think it's better to argue now and tell him where he's going wrong, so he can learn from the mistakes and correct it to future animations, rather than say nothing, so he makes the same mistakes repeatedly.

 

Right. Especially when you consider that, right now he has to fix one animation, but if we wait until later he may have to fix 20, 30 or more, which is much more cumbersome.

[Ishtvan]

Also, the fact that we're critiquing such fine points in the first few frames indicate that the animation overall is very good.

[pakmannen]

I just have this horrible picture in my head where for every single animation there is going to be a 3 page topic with things like "gosh, don't you think his right elbow moves just a tad slower than it ought to? *winkwink*". Hope I'm wrong

[oDDity]

Not really, I was pointing out technical flaws in the animation, not aesthetic ones. Technical flaws are absolute, and should be fixed.

Realistic character aniamiton isn't easy - in fact, its very difficult, and there are a lot of technical absolute rules that must be followed, with the aesthetic movement on top of that.

[sparhawk]

Bringing aesthetics into it, might be a bit of a problem anyway, because it would mean that to introduce personallity into the animation, but we should avoid this in general to be able to reuse them.

[Domarius]

Personality is completely nessecary though, but it won't limit us too much. For example, turning left as a routine patrol action, would be okay to do for either a female guard or a male guard, but if for some reason we wanted say, a female noble to turn left on the spot, she'd have to be more feminine and delicate about it.

 

Pak raised a good point - which would be true if we had a deadline or milestone which needed some crucial anims, but the others are right - its good for me to be picked up on technical things, and I AM asking for heavy feedback - as long as its based on "does it feel right to you", as in - if something feels wrong and you can't shake it off - that's the kind of feedback I'm happy with.

 

So, oDDity was right - I will adjust the weight shifting as you guys suggested - probably lean first, then lift foot, and increase the leaning overall for the whole anim.

[Domarius]

He said he updated the animation ...

Yes but in oDDity's defence, I did say that I specifically did not change the weight shifting in that update

 

Okay I updated the file again - I just added extra weight shifting on the first step, and more of a head turn before his body turns.

 

Here's the same link again for convenience.

[god_is_my_goldfish]

The one thing that bothers me about the latest one is the 'planting' foot moving/dragging back once he's made the turn. (the left one in the vid) It would seem more natural if it stayed where it landed, or only moved very slightly, like a slight shift to compensate for balance.

[Domarius]

That's always been there since the first version I uploaded. It's that way for a very good reason because I did a lot of experimenting, both with myself and with the guard model.

 

If he tries to turn on the spot in only 2 steps, his legs are too close together and his boots intersect. I can techincally turn 90 degrees on the spot - when I lift my right foot, I need to place it at 90 degrees to my other foot so that the heel is almost touching my other heel, then when I lift my left I can place it parallel to the right one again.

(I did this while standing over a tile pattern, so I knew exactly where my pivot point should be and where I should place my feet).

This doesn't feel natural, and also I'm not wearing thick boots.

 

Also, if you want to talk about "natural", try and "naturally" turn exactly on your vertical axis. I found that you naturally want to turn on an axis that exists somewhere behind you, if you want to do it in only 2 steps.

 

 

 

So he steps out a bit wide with his right foot so that his boots won't intersect, and then turns, but his right foot is not where it should be, so then it moves back to where it should.

 

In the end, I think it looks like a natural shuffle someone might do if they were just stepping around to face another direction, rather than a perfectly planned dance move.

[god_is_my_goldfish]

Well I just know that I tried several 90 degree turns, with and without boots, and I never needed to recompensate by the 5 inches or so the guard does.

[Domarius]

Yes but you are not HIM; you do not have his "characture" physique (he has particularly enormous calves), or his particular boots.

 

Here is the 2 steps only anim, zoomed in on the intersecting calves.

 

Like I already said, I personally can do it to, but for this Elite guard, it is physically impossible.

[sparhawk]

Personality is completely nessecary though, but it won't limit us too much. For example, turning left as a routine patrol action, would be okay to do for either a female guard or a male guard, but if for some reason we wanted say, a female noble to turn left on the spot, she'd have to be more feminine and delicate about it.

 

With personallity I rather meant very specific things. Like a person could be have a hunch to make a small jump instead of just turning around. Such little things would make an AI more individual, but obviously it would just look ridicoulous if every AI had such strange things.

[Domarius]

Oh ok.

[sparhawk]

I don't know. The movement of the one foot looks a bit overdone but I tested the movement myself and it seems to be ok. Could be that this is because it's out of perspective.

[god_is_my_goldfish]

I actually like the clipping version better :\

[Domarius]

But its CLIPPING, and very noticibly - that voids the anim as far as I'm concerned. How can you not mind it? I would be surprised if anyone else would put up with it.

[Domarius]

I don't know. The movement of the one foot looks a bit overdone ...

It's not - since I was actually using the program, I can confirm that the feet are mathematically EXACTLY where they should be if the body is rotated 90 degrees. Because to rough out the animation, the first thing I did was just rotated the whole body 90 degrees and make that the ending frame

As you can see - when his right leg is placed in its final position (before the left leg moves) - its clipping with the left leg - there is no way to avoid this and still do it in 2 steps.

[Ishtvan]

Can we give our guard some calf-reduction surgery?

[Darkness_Falls]

Can we give our guard some calf-reduction surgery?

Uh oh, don't knock oDDity's boots! He's defended them several times with "It'll be my signature; my trademark." And that he won't change them. I agree, though, they look kinda big, even in game.

[Domarius]

Well I like the anim how it is - Turning on the spot on your own axis feels unatural. I foudn that if I wanted to turn using 2 steps, I spun on an axis that existed somewhere behind me. We can' tdo this for the AI since the FM author should depend on them just turning on the spot and not falling off a nearby ledge.

[Domarius]

Uh oh, don't knock oDDity's boots! He's defended them several times with "It'll be my signature; my trademark." And that he won't change them. I agree, though, they look kinda big, even in game.

I agree - they seriously needed a good charachature style in T3, its one of the worst looking styles I've ever seen. oDDity's is very unique as well as being aesthetically pleasing. Leave it alone, it's great.

[god_is_my_goldfish]

How about this, because he's an elite guard, and thus has military experience, he pulls a sharper turn, and let's his 'planting' leg swing out more before snapping back primly in place. Like someone standing before a drill sargeant would. It would eliminate the need to have him adjust his foot, and fit his military background.

[Domarius]

You mean he spins on his left foot before dropping his right? That's the only way I can imagine it happening.

 

(Not that I'm seriously considering re-animating this one over doing new animations - only 2 people have actually complained about the extra step so far.)

[oDDity]

THere's no probem making him turn in two steps with no clipping.

 

http://208.49.149.118/TheDarkMod/Files/turnclipless.avi