Elite Run Cycle

[Domarius]

Read this before posting comments

 

I can't remember where, but I saw armed people running with their sword behind them like this. It just seems like a really sensible and safe thing to do - you won't impale yourself if you trip and fall, and as a bonus your arm is already drawn back for a slicing movement when you reach your target.

 

Run Cycle (on the spot)

 

Side view (running by)

[oDDity]

No, I don't like it like that, also it's going to clip through stuff a lot, being stuck away out like that.

[Domarius]

Then I can make his torso more side on so his sword is trailing behind him and not sticking out to the side. I don't imagine it would clip through much because even if there was something behind him it wouldn't last long since he's running in the opposite direction.

 

Other than that, is there another specific reason you don't like it? Or you just don't like the way it looks? I think it looks rather cool myself.

[oDDity]

IT just looks lie an awkward way to run.

I've tried it myself, and the way I'd run is just holding it normally.

[Domarius]

Hm, well see what everyone else thinks. If you were trained to run this way it wouldn't feel akward, and I know the historical re-enactors at the medieval festival took similar precautions in fighting stances etc.

[Springheel]

I don't particularly like it either. Not only does it look like it would bump into things, but with the sword way behind the guard, he would lose precious seconds getting it out in front of him to defend against an attack.

[Domarius]

Like I already said, it's conceivably pulled back in preperation for a forward swing, so what you said is not nessecarily true.

 

I think it's more important not to impale yourself.

 

I wish I remember where I saw this. Personally I find it quite natural and safe to run like this. The way they run with it in T2 is ridiculous, it looks like it weighs nothing. Moving it back and forth like that would be tiring, better to keep it still.

 

I've got lots of arguments for it, but if you guys don't think it looks cool enough, well, please offer something else, prefferably not the T2 way.

[Ishtvan]

Yeah I would think it would make them pretty vulnerable. They always say "the hand should come before the foot" in fencing, and this is clearly not following that advice. If someone stepped forward to meet them faster than they anticipated, they'd be screwed.

 

I'll try and find some images when I get back from work, but think of pretty much any image from a movie of people charging with swords (Braveheart comes to mind ). The actors didn't imaple themselves, and they didn't hold their swords back like that either, and it looked more believable. Sometimes you see them kind've hold the sword diagonally out in front two hands point facing forward, then run as fast as possible with the legs. It's probably not as fast as a full sprint, but hey, that's why our thief is faster.

 

The re-enactors you saw doing that might have had shields held forward in their other hand, in which case they're not as undefended.

[Domarius]

You're 100% correct - they did. That little detail escaped my memory.

 

*sigh* well I'm loath to do it the T2 way. Anyone feel free to offer some suggestions, I'll try to come up with something else.

[Domarius]

Okay here's a new run, he has his sword out in front of him now. He holds it more realistically than the T2 version though.

 

Cycle

Run past

[Ishtvan]

Looks great, at least to my un-trained eye.

[oDDity]

YEs that's a better general posing, but there's a lot wrong with it. I dont' know how finshed this is supposed to be though so I'll leave it for now.

[sparhawk]

Run Cycle (on the spot)

 

Side view (running by)

 

I think this running mode is valid and doesn't look so bad, but it also suffers from the missing secondary motions on the hands and the sword. It looks pretty static there. I think that this kind of running would be more in relation with a pruposefull stride, or just before the attack. Form the sword position you can gain good momentum if you are about to strike an overhead blow.

Of course the clipping could really become a problem though.

[sparhawk]

I wish I remember where I saw this. Personally I find it quite natural and safe to run like this.

 

It depends on the situation. If this would be a run to get from A to B, like when the alarm gong rings and the AI needs to gather up, this would definitely not be used. If teh AI saw the player, and intends to run up to him and strike him, it would be a natural way to do it this way.

[sparhawk]

Okay here's a new run, he has his sword out in front of him now. He holds it more realistically than the T2 version though.

 

Cycle

Run past

 

That looks very good. Even though the hands are not moving here, it is not so apparent on the one side, and also the sword tip is moving around believable.

[Domarius]

YEs that's a better general posing, but there's a lot wrong with it. I dont' know how finshed this is supposed to be though so I'll leave it for now.

Well I didn't say it was a draft so fire away.

[oDDity]

Well for a start, he's floating too much. THEre is no weight. THIs is casued by the y position of the hips. You need to adjust the curve to give it more punch when he takes off and when he lands. Currently the curve is just a regular, smooth, up-down-up-down.

You know, like the old ball bouncing exercids everyone does for his first animaton? You have to adjust the curve to make it kick of the floor and delay a little at te top.

IT's a little more complicated with a person, but the principal is the same.

He also seems to be overall too crouched down the whiole time.

THe left hand posiiton is odd. He keeps it almost palm up

The sword hand it too stationary, yes, you want it to move less that the free hand, but not that much less.

The head is motionless, it just inherits the motion of the shoulders, it should have some independance.

When the left leg comes forward, the left shoulder rotates back, but it's too exaggerated and snaps back into place agin.. The right shoulder has a better action on it's turn.

[Domarius]

Thanks for all that - it's good if you can give me a specific list of things like that, makes my work so much faster.

 

It's hard to notice these things when you've been watching the same anim for so long.

[Darkness_Falls]

I wish I remember where I saw this. Personally I find it quite natural and safe to run like this.

I've seen it a few times, always in anime or Japanese movies, with sumurai running with sword behind them like that. Their sword is normally curved a bit, to my recollection. I think that movie "The Last Samurai" with Tom Cruise had a scene with samurai running like this. Not sure. But I know I've seen it in at least a couple anime movies. I remember noticing it and, at the time, thinking of how beneficial such a run style with a sword would be (less prone to accidental impaling, faster run speed (maybe), etc.). But I agree with everyone here that it doesn't really look right for Thief, which is more European-influenced. I immediately thought of anime, or Prince of Persia (as I think it's used somewhat there, too), when I saw the first vid.

[sparhawk]

Movies are not really suitable to determine how to move with a weapon.

 

Most of the time they are made to look cool.

In fact, most movies where people use guns and cool movements, they would look cool, but they wouldn't hit much of a target. Movement with guns is certainly different then with swords, but I still don't think it would be usefull to look at hollywood flicks for realism.

[Darkness_Falls]

I agree that movies are not always the most historically accurate things in the world, but I've seen enough sword carrying like this to give me the impression it is probably how it was done for samurai and/or ninjas, etc. If it were consistently done like this in cheesy Hollywood action movies then I'd be less likely to believe in it. But when used in legitimate, sophisticated anime from Japan as it is -- (no, not kids cartoons like Pokemon or Dragonball-Z) -- then I am more likely to believe. It was maybe in Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon the movie, too. So many places I think I've seen it...

[Domarius]

Yeah that's probably where I saw it too.

 

Well I could have it either way, but if I had my preference I would prefer it behind.

 

I guess if this was more a japanese thing than a medieval guard thing then it would be less historically acurate though.

[Ishtvan]

Movies like Crouching Tiger are choreographed by Wushu/Chinese Opera choreographers, and while it is quite visually stunning, those moves are not meant for practical combat. It's more like gymnastics routines with weapons. So I wouldn't draw justification from there.

[Darkness_Falls]

I knew I shouldn't have mentioned Crouching Tiger...

[oDDity]

I love that movie. Are there any other chinese movies like that?