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My Mansion Loot


god_is_my_goldfish

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A simple alpha texture added to the corner of the loot would work.

 

I say we throw it in and make it optional simply cuz it's so easy to implement, any one of us could do the required work for it in about 10 minutes.

Don't forget the coding. :) Well, but this is not really hard to do. We only need to calculate the distance. Or do we ignore the distance and always make lootglint?

 

From the coding perspective we have to do the following.

 

Read the distance parameter.

If an object is visible and within distance the glint will be activated.

 

It is pretty much the same like the frobhighlight. I would say that we have two parameters for this. A global loot glint option to switch it off entirely. And a per/item lootglint distance. If it is set to 0 we will activate it depending on the global setting. If it is not 0 we take the lootglint distance and use this but it is ignored when the global option is turned off.

 

This way we can determine for each object an indidual distance. I think that this could help a lot as we don't want to have the glint being visible through a hallway. And you can set a lower distance for smaller object and a larger one for bigger objects (or vice versa). Personally I'm not really fond of the glint. It takes the fun out of searching for the loot. I don't like the loot hunt if you have to go for every last item, but the glint made it way to ease.

 

So if this suggestion is acceptable then I will add it to the item design.

Gerhard

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Oh God noooooooo, what have I started. :lol: If loot is distinct enough from junk like in the orginal games we really shouldn't need it. I don't want to say I'm vehemently opposed to loot glint...ahh hell, I am. I think part of the reason they had to use loot glint in Thief DS is because they shared textures between so many different items that everything blended in, but that shouldn't be a problem for us. I have a few alternate suggestions as I don't think it's fair to drop it completely as I'm sure some found it quite useful. My first suggestion is to have a distinctive loot texture that will allow the player to learn what is valuable quite easily. :) I think with the doom 3 engine we also have specular maps on our side, so junk can be completely dull when compared to loot as well. :) Sort of like having loot glint, but just not the obvious kind. My second suggestion is that perhaps loot can also have an extremely subtle glow..could that be done with shaders too?

Edited by New Horizon
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I don't need (/or) want lootglint, but we should use an option for this also since there might be someone who absolutely wan't to have it.

I agree. I don't want it or need it, but I don't think it should be a feature. I know people like to tweak their game, but loot glint is something that I feel changes the on screen world. I think if we firmly establish what textures are loot and which are junk that it eliminates the need for loot glint. Loot glint was just one of those little details that really derailed Thief 3 for me. Without it real loot blends into everything...this was more an issue with the textures being quite bland than anything. What got under my skin about it is that it didn't appear to be an organic part of the game world...it was more of a "wink wink" type of thing. My own personal philosophy, especially in a Thief style game, is that a helper feature like that can be achieved without the obvious wink of a sparkle.

 

Now, the glow that I was mentioning in my previous post wouldn't look like a haze around the loot, just a very subtle glow that would make it look more important than non loot. It's the kind of thing that would make you think..."Is it there? Is it not?" It shouldn't be obvious, but it should be helpful. :) Essentially, you don't notice it..but you're using it.

 

In many ways, Thief 3 cold have been subtitled..."Deadly Obvious".

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Some kind of subtle glow like that would be fine with me, especially if it only kicks in when you get fairly close. But either way, we should definitely have an option to toggle it on or off.

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Some kind of subtle glow like that would be fine with me, especially if it only kicks in when you get fairly close. But either way, we should definitely have an option to toggle it on or off.

Hmm, I'll see if I can photoshop a pic of what I mean. With the kind of glow I'm envisioning it would be so integrated into the game world that you really wouldn't register is as a glow...it would just make things stand out. ;) I'll post a pic if I can work something up.

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My first suggestion is to have a distinctive loot texture that will allow the player to learn what is valuable quite easily. :) I think with the doom 3 engine we also have specular maps on our side, so junk can be completely dull when compared to loot as well. :)

I htink that loot mustn't really be immediately recognizable. If a valuable jug is lying in the sunken city for hundreds of years, it will not really look THAT valuable on first sight.

 

So personally I prefer to have loot sticking out visually as it was done in T1/T2. You could identify any valuable glass immediatly because of the look of it.

 

Some things were not so obvious. I had always problems with wine bottles but that was not a real problem.

Gerhard

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I htink that loot mustn't really be immediately recognizable. If a valuable jug is lying in the sunken city for hundreds of years, it will not really look THAT valuable on first sight.

 

So personally I prefer to have loot sticking out visually as it was done in T1/T2. You could identify any valuable glass immediatly because of the look of it.

 

Some things were not so obvious. I had always problems with wine bottles but that was not a real problem.

I would be inclined to completely agree with you on the loot matter Sparkhawk. I really think we could pull off the way it was done in Thief 1 and 2 without have to use special aids to guide players. However, if the majority votes for a loot cue of some sort I have a demonstration of what I was thinking of.

 

Now, this demonstration won't be fully representative of the final effect since we don't have a custom loot texture to work with yet, only the T3 stuff. For the example, I just used a tin can from T3.

 

Okay, the can on the front right would be your average piece of loot we'll say. Pretend the cans behind it are a totally different shape and just junk.

 

withoutglow.jpg

 

Okay, this would be the type of "inner" loot glow I'm talking about. Not an outer highlight. It could probably be even more subtle than this, but we'll go with this for the purpose of the example.

 

In a fully lit room, you really wouldn't notice it and you would rely on the definitive loot texture to know if it was loot. It's really only meant to make a difference in a darker room however where it would stand out ever so slightly. Not enough for you to say...oh, that's glowing over there...but just enough to barely catch your eye. It would have to be carefully tweaked, but I think it could really work. That is of course if we vote to have some kind of additional loot clue, but as I stated before...I think a proper texture set would suffice. :)

 

 

withglow.jpg

 

Goldfish is on the right track with the designs. Loot also needs separate models from junk. T3 used the same models for a lot of loot. Gah.

Edited by New Horizon
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Well, the distinctive loot texture worked fairly well in T1/2 because there weren't very many objects that could be picked up.

 

The problem I see with your inner glow, NH, is that it seems to require comparison with the non-lit version. If it were on a shelf by itself, it doesn't inherently look like loot.

 

If we are going to not use some kind of loot glint, we should make sure our textures are fairly obvious. Either that, or implement some kind of coding that allows us to put objects back quietly. I always hated picking things up because I thought they might be valuable and then being stuck having to drop it onto a tile floor to get rid of it.

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Well, the distinctive loot texture worked fairly well in T1/2 because there weren't very many objects that could be picked up. 

 

The problem I see with your inner glow, NH, is that it seems to require comparison with the non-lit version.  If it were on a shelf by itself, it doesn't inherently look like loot.

 

Yeah, this is where the example above can't really be of any use until we have our loot models and textures created. If we have separate distinct sets for both junk and loot it will just be a matter of looking at them to decide which is which. The example I gave wasn't so much to show how it would compare but how the glow would be achieved. For our purposes, the textures and models should provide the distinction. The glow is simply a suggestion for those who feel some kind of aid is required for darker rooms without making it look like the loot is in a spotlight. :)

 

If we are going to not use some kind of loot glint, we should make sure our textures are fairly obvious.  Either that, or implement some kind of coding that allows us to put objects back quietly.  I always hated picking things up because I thought they might be valuable and then being stuck having to drop it onto a tile floor to get rid of it.

 

Quiet placement of objects is definately something that would be welcomed. Placing objects back seemed to work much better in Thief 1 and 2 than in Thief 3. Maybe the Devs forgot that you could place an object back down with the R button in Thief 1 and 2. Don't know...but I sure missed that function.

Edited by New Horizon
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Quiet placement of objects is definately something that would be welcomed. Placing objects back seemed to work much better in Thief 1 and 2 than in Thief 3. Maybe the Devs forgot that you could place an object back down with the R button in Thief 1 and 2. Don't know...but I sure missed that function.

I think there is a problem with putting something back. It is the physics engine. My guess why this doesn't really work in any game (none that I remember at least) is that it requires special coding to provide for it. If some object is standing in a i.e board, the character can not reach it really. So this means he he blocked by the bounding box of the board. To take the object the code simply looks if the player is near enough and then removes it from the world into the inventory (or players hands). If you would have to put it back, this would mean that the player would have to be near enough. But the bounding box prevents this. It would require a high precision to place the object back.

 

But I think we can do this by either providing a seperate button OR by assuming that the player wants to put it back if the view vector and the distance is in a position near enough of the original position. We cimply must store the original location of the object and replace it in the case that one of the above is true. The nice thing is, that, if we allow this, we could even programm the AI to recognize moved objects.

 

It could work like this. The player takes an object (i.e. a book). When he wants to put it back the object is placed randomly within the original region. If the player holds the button down for a longer time, the object will be adjusted and shift to it's original place. After a certain time it will reach the original place but that takes time. If the object is carelessly placed then the AI could recognize it. If the player takes the time the AI won't recognize it afterwards.

 

What do you say?

Gerhard

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Would guards really be that observent, to notice that something is at a slightly different angle? I don't think that's very realistic, nor all that fun, either.

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I think there is a problem with putting something back. It is the physics engine. My guess why this doesn't really work in any game (none that I remember at least) is that it requires special coding to provide for it. If some object is standing in a i.e board, the character can not reach it really. So this means he he blocked by the bounding box of the board. To take the object the code simply looks if the player is near enough and then removes it from the world into the inventory (or players hands). If you would have to put it back, this would mean that the player would have to be near enough. But the bounding box prevents this. It would require a high precision to place the object back.

 

But I think we can do this by either providing a seperate button OR by assuming that the player wants to put it back if the view vector and the distance is in a position near enough of the original position. We cimply must store the original location of the object and replace it in the case that one of the above is true. The nice thing is, that, if we allow this, we could even programm the AI to recognize moved objects.

 

It could work like this. The player takes an object (i.e. a book). When he wants to put it back the object is placed randomly within the original region. If the player holds the button down for a longer time, the object will be adjusted and shift to it's original place. After a certain time it will reach the original place but that takes time. If the object is carelessly placed then the AI could recognize it. If the player takes the time the AI won't recognize it afterwards.

 

What do you say?

I think if it's missing or on the other side of the room they should definatley notice, but if it's in the general space that it once occupied they shouldn't pay much mind to it. They hate their jobs...they're probably day dreaming anyway. ;)

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I think if it's missing or on the other side of the room they should definatley notice, but if it's in the general space that it once occupied they shouldn't pay much mind to it. They hate their jobs...they're probably day dreaming anyway. ;)

But we have also elite guards. :) this would be a customizable feature, so it doesn't have to be true for every single AI. Servants would probably not recognize anything. Depends on the servant type.

Gerhard

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Would guards really be that observent, to notice that something is at a slightly different angle? I don't think that's very realistic, nor all that fun, either.

An elite gurad in a high security area should. Just watch a spymove. :) They are often placing hairs or powder to detect such things for i.e. important documents, drawers, lockers or such.

Gerhard

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I'm also quite opposed to loot glint. If items are made easily recognizable as loot without going overboard, which T1/T2 pulled off well, then there shouldn't really be a need for loot glint like T3. By having loot glint, you never have those moments of discovery like in T2 where you thought you found all the loot in a room, only to revisit and see a little gold coin sitting off in a shadowy corner, or on the 1.5"-wide top edge of some wall paneling. Loot glint also takes away one of the uses our flares would provide.

 

I love NH's attempt at showing a valuable item. That sort of coloring, also combined with having valuable objects be slightly more brilliant (bump shadowy) -- I don't know how to describe -- would be cool.

 

You know how when you look at a brushed steel surface in a game and you move back and forth you can see how the light reacts to it within its surface? This is what I mean by more brilliant. Valuable objects would catch the surrounding light better and have a brighter brilliance to them than regular objects so they're more visible when you move around. Brilliance maybe isn't a good word to describe, but maybe you know what I mean? Basically, valuable objects would have a higher tendency to be caught by your eye as you walk around. In addition to this, maybe have it so if you walk by an item at just the right angle, it will reflect a single bright flash of light to your eye (unless there's no light source nearby whatsoever). Experiencing this light flash would be a somewhat rare occurrence (since how often would a glint of light hit your eye from loot in real life) and would NOT be a flashing beacon like in T3.

 

This would make hunting for loot funner, imo. Loot glint coupled with loot percentages kind've killed the thieving experience in T3 for me. I disliked loot percentages. I much preferred T1/T2's accumulation of loot value. In T1/T2, you didn't know how much loot you had compared to the total available for the level. So, when you had amassed 1250 loot, you had no clue if there was only 150 loot left, or 2000 left. Part of the mystery of it all.

Edited by Darkness_Falls
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