Female Pagan

[oDDity]

I don't think she needs any clothes, she looks fine as she is. Just the tattoos, which will come with the texturing. It would also be a gaming first to have totally nude fighting characters.

We don't have a publisher, or any watchdogs, we can do whatever the hell we like.

[sparhawk]

The question is, why SHOULD she be nude?

[BlackThief]

because they have a different culture, with no taboos about sex etc. ?

 

no objection here - I'm totally fine with it. Just look at some traditional African tribes - most of the women there don't have a lot of clothing as well. and that's not because they're so poor.

 

btw how did you do the hair? I was recently working on a new head-model, but there's SOMETHING that makes me feel I didn't reach the goal of a realistic looking head again, but I'm not sure why. maybe it has to do with the lack of hair.

 

 

edit: after looking at your model again I noticed that the lower leg seems to go a bit too far back in the side view - or the knee is too thin - small picture, but I think you can see what I mean:

[sparhawk]

because they have a different culture, with no taboos about sex etc. ?

 

That MAY be a reason, but since we never defined this, it looks more like Oddity just wants to push his agenda. I have no problem with having nude actors as long as there is a good reason. Just to have something provocative is not a good reason.

[oDDity]

I just modeled the hair, same as the rest. Just noticed I didn't finish the ear..

Celtic warriors often fought 'tackle out', and didn't wear clothes in their huts. They had no hangups about nudity, and since these are based on celts, they should do the same.

Now maybe you could give us some decent arguments against having nude characters?

[BlackThief]

looking really good for modelled hair. thought it was made with some kind of plugin or zbrush.

[oDDity]

As for your model, everything is generally in the right place, but it just looks mishaped in places, while I can't pin down any exact thing.

You could send me the model, I can pull the verts around a bit and see if Ican improive it, send it back, and you can compare the two. Might giveyou a clue as to what is goign wrong.

[BlackThief]

sounds good, I'd really appreciate that. I know something's not right but I simply can't spot the problem.

http://people.freenet.de/darkmod/head_model.lwo

[oDDity]

It's mainly that your mesh is too dense, so it makes it hard to adjust proerly, you end up with bumps and wrinkles, also the poly flow doesn't follow the topology in a lot of places, it just goes in a criss-cross grid pattern, which furthur makes it hard to correct the topology.

You also don't want to get too hung up on following photo references exactly, they often are distorted, you should go with what looks right on the 3d model.

http://208.49.149.118/TheDarkMod/Files/head_model2.lwo.avi

[SneaksieDave]

Re: the nude thing. It should technically be fine, but if it makes things "racey" or "challenging" or "controversial" ... "oooh, NUDITY...!" blah blah blah, then that would be an undesired effect. Even if it could be seen as right, TDM shouldn't have the sore of a stigma attached to it because "those guys were just going for teh sensationalism!1" - mostly because it wouldn't be true.

 

Even in Africa they hide their goodies, though. At least in all the documentaries I've seen. The guys will have their wang behind at least a hanging cloth or in a bag, and the women will have only breasts bared. It's simply protecting what nature considers the most important organs of the body - the ones that enable procreation.

[oDDity]

They are goign to have a reasonable amount of blue woad tattoos, which can be placed strategically, so they aren't going to be totally bare nekid, even thiough they aren't wearing clothes.

[sparhawk]

Now maybe you could give us some decent arguments against having nude characters?

 

Did you even read my reply? I already said that I don't have somethign against it in principle. I just don't want nude models to have them in there for the only reason to be nude. We defined some background for our factions, which influences also what style they wear and what traditions they have. Having nude female warriors running around might be kewl and appease the 8-12 year old fancrowd, but the question is, why they would be running around nude in our environment. Especially since you are opposed to having to much emphasis on fighting. I know that the 'barbarians' in the roman time fought nude. But they were notz running around like this all the time. So what are they fighting against.If they are not fighting, then why are they running around nude all the time? Just for showing off?

[New Horizon]

I have no objections. I think it will be a refreshing move to get away from the tired social stigma associated with being naked. I do agree with covering up the 'willy' region, but not because it might potentially offend someone. I'm just thinking that it would make sense to see that the pagans in Dark Mod would at least try to use some animal skin to cover up their 'delicates'.

[god_is_my_goldfish]

Aye, the nether regions have always been loined or girded for both males and females for celts in everything I've found on the subject (which admittedly, is not much.)

 

And yeah, the knee definetly seems way too curved back.

 

I eagerly await renzatic to stop by here with some lewd comment

[oDDity]

When you see them with the tattoos, it won't be so blatant.

[Springheel]

Nothing wrong with a nude model, though that might limit how often it is used by FM authors. I'd like to see any nude pagans more feral-looking when finished, however, rather than pin-up fantasy women.

 

Some ornamentation (bracers, a belt to carry things one, etc) would make for a more interesting model, I think. And I agree all the refrences I've seen have a loincloth of some kind, though know there were plenty of cultures that didn't even wear that.

[oDDity]

Heh, I love the way you all start your post with 'I've nothing against nudity, but...'

Like the way a racist will start a sentence with 'I'm not racist, but..'

[SneaksieDave]

more feral-looking when finished, however, rather than pin-up fantasy women

 

Good point. And if there is a version of the female with a cloth, then every FM design need/taste is met.

 

Edit: Hey, if she's nude, she'll probably be a lot less likely to get blackjacked. ...Hmm, then again, maybe for some, more likely.

[oDDity]

Heh, yeah, It'll certainly please those people who take those screenshots with AI they've posed in unusual positions...

 

 

If you have the bottom half covered, then it's goign to be unfair. It's just going to be women with their tits out.

[SneaksieDave]

TDM: Naked Ragdoll Simulator

 

Hey, you could have the guys' nuts hang out...

[sparhawk]

I hope you model all the 'gory' details as well.

[Macsen]

As a celt I can confirm that this is totally accurate. I'm sitting here naked right now! At an internet cafe.

 

She's probably be a bit more 'butch' than that if she went off to war all the time though. You need pretty strong arms to be twirling axes. And she'd have heaps of woad on, plus some kind of little celtic necklace to protect her from evil spirits.

[Ishtvan]

I think that concept, with loincloth and tattoos, seems to go hand in hand with the male pagan concept art and could work well. Two questions though: 1. Out of curiosity, what did the Celts do when it got really really cold? 2. How much extra time are we going to have to spend animating the boobies?

[Domarius]

I'm a nudist so you won't have any negative critisisms from me as far as sans clothing goes, as long as we've got male versions as well. Also, her breasts obey gravity and are of a respectable size. Non-sexual nudity in a video game. Fancy that.

 

My brother raised some interesting points, which makes me think we should have naked pagans and armoured pagans, in the same way we have guards and nobles in the city.

 

The ones in cities would probably not want to be naked to avoid attracting attention. If we did this, then I think seeing them naked in the forest would have a greater impact, seeing the pagans in their natural habitat in a culture very alien compared to what you see in the city.

 

Also, warriors like to wear, like a big rib cage of an animal "I kiled something bigger than me." which could also double as armour. And also it's hard to imagine not wanting to strap down breasts and both male and female genitals when entering battle. But of course not everyone will be "battle ready" all the time, so we should have the naked ones too.

 

Also, my brother's suggestion for feral-ing them up a bit;

With that whole feral bit you might consider looking at how King Kong's natives were done - an intimidating kind of thing, but without so much madness. I reckon Pagans have a kind of stoic element to them as well, in terms of themselves (and humans) as beings, like to them relationships of nature is society and they are just serving that. So yeah, feral out of uncaring for themselves with a cold outlook on humanity. Mmm....

Personally, I'm eager to see some dirty texture on her (and the forthcoming male version?), also their hair should be as messy as possible within the low poly constraints. Maybe they cake it full of mud or something, so its messy but still one big solid low-poly friendly mass.

 

2. How much extra time are we going to have to spend animating the boobies?

Not much more time than animating the hair or loose clothing and armour. At the risk of sounding crass, it's essentially another "dangling" thing, like a sword scabbard or a skirt. It's its not exactly much of an extra animation requirement.

 

As a celt I can confirm that this is totally accurate. I'm sitting here naked right now! At an internet cafe.

What? Is it a nudist cafe or something??

[Domarius]

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