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Female Pagan


oDDity

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Ah, but it's WHERE the lines are going, what matters. :)

 

You could say just as well "Sex is all about moving back and forward, which is not much more than making excersises in the gym - anyone can have a go." :)

What are you on about? I'm talking about the simplicity of the tattoos - its much easier to draw than skin detail, therefore more people are capable of having a go. If you were an artist you could appreciate this. There are plenty of people who can draw good designs that do not also happen to be good at life drawing. I consider myself good at life drawing, but crap at designs. Theyre' totally different things. One's aiming for realisim, the other is creating something that is purely aesthetically pleasing. The latter I can't do with simple shapes, I need to draw some realistic scene of some sort.

 

And what's this fixation on sex you seem to have, anyway?

 

Yes, I know some of you are going to start crying because it isn't outlandish and blatant enough, you want them ruuning around in loincloths and animal skins, waving animal bones, but this is a city remember, that sort of thing is not going to be tolerated.
Not me :) I always thought how weird it was in T3 that the pagans had just plonked themselves so obviously in the middle of the city without much conflict, vines, loincloths and all. I can also appreciate how her clothing is full length to cover the tattoos.

 

One question - will there be SOMETHING that the player can look for that will distinguish a clothed pagan from any other civillian? Something iconic, a pendant or tattoo or something.

 

My brother suggests "It would be cool to see subtle kinds of uncomfortable elements with City clothing, like slightly ill-fitting clothes or the way they move in them, or the fashion is slightly off, because they're trying to fit in, but maybe don't get it exactly?"

What do you think?

 

Hmmm... maybe I should invent a "pagan walk" for the anims, something a bit primal looking, slightly apelike. Sort of looks like a normal walk but if you know it, you can spot the difference. Maybe that will give them away.

 

YOu can animate the hands already, and the animaiton will be taken over by the new mesh. THe thumb and forefinger bones will remain the way they are, and I will use the existing ring finger bones to bind and weight the mitten part of the new hand to, so it should all work out the same.
Ah, excellent :)
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No, there's no need for that. The city pagans are normal people wearing normal clothes. THe differences are their long blonde hair (male and female) and their style of clothing and jewelry.

THe warrior pagans will look compeltely different, but they'll not be seen in cities anyway.

 

How much of the "world book" is currently accurate information anyway? :)

 

We long ago decided on a celtic appearance, so I'M not sure where that gypsy thing came from.

If you look at the concept art for pagans by SH, it even shows celtic warriors.

 

THe desgn document it a little too vague about pagans, it basically says there are many different types, from normal people who dont happen to follow the Builder religion, right down to vicious warrior tribes who can turn into animals.

Things have to be narrowed down a little more when it comes to actually modeling the things.

 

These pagans I'm currently doing are the upper end of the scale, some live in the city, and some have native villages close to the city where they behave more natually (don't wear clothes)

I can also do the warlike pagans, who don't come anywhere near the city and kill outsdiers on sight. THey wil llook more like the concept art of warrior celts.

Civillisation will not attain perfection until the last stone, from the last church, falls on the last priest.

- Emil Zola

 

character models site

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It's a good model and will be a welcome city addition. I wouldn't guess it was a pagan by sight, but pagans run the gamut from savages to rustic folk with different religious beliefs.

 

Other things we haven't worked out is exactly how intregrated these city pagans are.

 

- how do they get money, what to they eat?

- do they have jobs?

- what is their relationship with other city dwellers and other factions?

- are they dispersed throughout the city or do they live in an enclave?

- is this pagan area a no-go zone for other city folk, or is it patrolled by the city watch like other areas?

- what is their standard of living. I know they appeared more or less like dumbass moron-speaking cavemen in previous Thief games, but I'd imagine, if we're basing them on celts, they could make good money as craftsmen, making and selling weapons, jewlery, tapestries, wickerwork etc

 

 

What we have so far:

"There are some pagans who have taken to living inside the walls of the city. They usually come from tribes close to the city to begin with, and sometimes members take jobs inside the walls. Some wind up moving there permanently. Others are city dwellers who have left the Builder's church and are looking for an alternative.

 

Urban pagans live in their own district in the city, for the most part. They are a little like gypsies in appearance, and they tend to cling to some old traditions involving magic and nature-worship. They live in fear of the Builders, who can usually arrest them for heresy without comment. When fires, disease or other problems arise in the city they are often the first to be blamed (similar in some ways to medieval jews)."

 

You can't always tell a pagan by looking at them. Those that blend in can probably live anywhere as long as they don't publicize their beliefs. The rest live in pagan areas. Pagans can take any kinds of jobs they want, but non-pagans would probably only hire them for menial labour or servant jobs. There are probably some good pagan craftsmen--especially wood-workers, I would imagine. There would also be fortune-tellers, herbalists and--of course--thieves. All the kind of jobs you'd expect a marginalized people to do.

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Yes, it al depends on you definiton of 'pagan'

Certainly anyone expecting a pagan from Thief wouldn't recognise this as one, but then I thought the Thief pagans were shit, the oriiginal Thief ones seemd to be filthy beggars in rags, and the T3 ones were lost amazonians or something , who happend to wander into the city.

 

As long as we remain consistent, give our city pagans the same look in clothes, jewelry and hair, poeple will soon learn to recognise them.

Civillisation will not attain perfection until the last stone, from the last church, falls on the last priest.

- Emil Zola

 

character models site

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Have you thought about having some tattoos peek out from under the dress?

 

Like maybe towards the back of the shoulder, there might be the last inch or two of a tattoed line protruding from under her dress. Just something to hint that she's tattooed under her clothes.

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Pagans born in he city probably wouldn't put tattos where they could be seen, if any. They wouldn't want to draw the attention of the Builders, who would see any tattooing as flagrant paganism.

City pagans would be walking a pretty thin line.

Civillisation will not attain perfection until the last stone, from the last church, falls on the last priest.

- Emil Zola

 

character models site

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give our city pagans the same look in clothes, jewelry and hair,

 

I'm not even sure that's necessary. Urban pagans are a lot like medieval jews (a group that is marginalized and disliked because they worship a different religion) and you couldn't tell a medieval jew just by what they were wearing. Some common threads (like the torques and the flowers) are a good idea, but it's not like they all have to have the same hairstyle or wear the same outfit.

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What style of clothing do you have in mind? The dress on that girl seems to be a pretty generic dress that might be worn by any non-wealthy woman. The majority of urban pagans will be poor, no doubt, so that part fits, but if want pagans that look in any way distinctive we'll have to go a little further.

 

 

We long ago decided on a celtic appearance, so I'M not sure where that gypsy thing came from.

If you look at the concept art for pagans by SH, it even shows celtic warriors.

 

The celtic idea was just one look for pagans outside the city. But the 'urban' pagans were always referred to as being 'gypsy' like. KFMcCall did a bunch of concept art for them last year (nothing useable though).

 

Ren's original idea of urban pagans looking somewhat 'gypsy' referred, I think, to them having a bit of a vagabond look--colourful scarves, bare arms, somewhat less-restrictive clothing. Something like that would contrast nicely with the uptight, metal-bound builders, and at the same time wouldn't make them identifiable on sight.

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I might direct you to the very same link.

 

No, there's no need for that. The city pagans are normal people wearing normal clothes. THe differences are their long blonde hair (male and female) and their style of clothing and jewelry.

THe warrior pagans will look compeltely different, but they'll not be seen in cities anyway.

Sounds good to me. :)

 

I'm amazed at the normal mapped version of the mitten hands!!! Sorry I only just noticed the comparison between the un-normal mapped mesh and the normal mapped one. I suppose if you zoomed right into the hand and looked at it on an angle, it'd start to look flat, but I'm assuming you don't even notice this normally. 800 polys is an awesome save for what it looks like in that pic...

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Well I popped in a bit late but anyways.

 

Nice model, but the hair is too perfect imo. A woman with tatoos like that and that culture would hardly have shampoo to keep it that clean. As mentioned before, you should make alternate heads imo and make some relatively unattractive ones such as bad teeth, blah blah blah, you get the point.

 

If you've seen the mummy, the way she had paint on her was a nice idea also, of course, she had it waaaay too complex and all.

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Yeah, it does look like a good program. They even have a short video clip of the program in action where they paint a tattoo on a character. On the left side of their website, click the BodyPaint 3D R2.5

in Action > "Projection Painting" link.

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