Bioshock

[sparhawk]

Otherwise we wouldn't have choosen it. When the HL2 SDK came out we discussed wether it would be worth switching. This is natural, because of course HL2 was not such a bad game and people were enthusiastic about it. There were many reasons against this, but the most important ones were technical issues.

Of course with new engines coming out, if you would start from scratch, you would have to reevaluate it in the light of new engines.

[Arumakani]

Purely hypothetically speaking sparhawk, of all the engine's available at the moment including Unrel3 and the Crytek, Crysis engine which would you choose for doing the Dark Mod if you were starting up now?

[sparhawk]

Quake 4.

 

Simple reason is, because of Id releasing their code under GPL, this counts a lot in my book and outweighs many technical shortcomings. Additionaly it offers everything that is needed. I don't know the technical specifications for the Unreal3. You can't just go by some screenshots, because of course they look impressive. Same for Crytek. When I first played Farcry I was so impressed by the beach that I just watched the waves enjoying the view. But of course this doesn't say much about the engine, only that the artists made a very good job at presenting the beach.

I'm not sure how good these engines would be with dynamic lighting and shadows.

[Arumakani]

Doesn't Quake 4 use Doom3 engine? Also have you seen the footage for Crysis. Looks as if everything is there.

[sparhawk]

Yes. Q4 is essentially Doom 3 with some new stuff included.

 

I haven't seen Crysis. Do you have a link?

[Arumakani]

Check the pics and vid clips here buddy:

 

http://pc.ign.com/objects/694/694190.html

 

Better non offscreen high def footage here, have to scroll down though:

 

http://www.gametrailers.com/gamepage.php?fs=1&id=2509

Edited June 1, 2006 by Arumakani

[sparhawk]

The screenshots look good, but somehow I'm a bit suspicious that they may be post processed. Anyway, advertising screenshots are supposed to look good, so this doesn't really say much about the actual performance characteristics.

[Arumakani]

Please check the second link I edited in and look at the high def footage and tell me what you think. t's supposed to be one of the first games for Windows Vista.

[sparhawk]

I don't know if I'm the best person to give an opinion about it, because I'm no artist. I can still look at it though.

[Arumakani]

Some odd reason I trust your opinion here the most with regards technical stuff. Any others who know their stuff too, please comment.

[sparhawk]

Looking at the various trailers, teh game itself looks interesting. What I consider strange though is, that the E3 game demo reminds me a bit of HL2. The trailer looks quite impressive with volumetric clouds, soft shadows and real time light, but I wonder why this is not shown in the E3 demos? If you watch the light and shadows in the player demo there is nothing to see. The particle effects are impressive. The billowing smokeclouds look quite realistic and the physics also looks ok. I assume they are using Havoc 2.0? But apart frmo that I would have expected more shadows and light flowing with all the fires and explosions going in. But in fact you can only see lighteffects from the main explosions. All the small lights don't have any effect at all, which is the part that reminds me at HL2.

 

Also I'm a bit suspicious about all these promises. Depth of field AND softshadows AND this realtime particle system sounds quite a lot to chew for the CPU. The plants also look realistic and extremly good, but FarCry already set a good standard on this, so it is no surprise that they expanded on this as well.

 

Looking at the trailer answering the question "Would you use it for Thief?" I would say yes, but looking at the E3 demos I have my doubts about it. I would have to run it on my own PC to see what is real and what not.

[Arumakani]

I think they use their own physics engine. The outdoor stuff is good. Thing is it'll require a very powerful Vista computer anyway, so not much scope for most folk to begin with.

 

It's quite interesting though how Doom3, Unreal 3 etc are good looking for indoor or dark environments, whereas HL2 and FarCry are better for outdoor stuff.

[sparhawk]

At least Doom 3 can also look good outdoors.

 

http://www.doom3world.org/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=15865

[BlackThief]

It's quite interesting though how Doom3, Unreal 3 etc are good looking for indoor or dark environments, whereas HL2 and FarCry are better for outdoor stuff.

 

 

HL2 isn't really THAT good for outdoor scenes, especially for nature scenes - they don't look any better than unreal2 outdoor stuff.

I guess you're not aware of Quake Wars - it's using a modified D3 engine as well and is able to render huge outdoor scenes a lot better than most other engines.

 

 

compare - valves showcase level:

http://www.neuro-tech.net/images/lc5.jpg

 

quake wars forest:

http://doom3.planet-multiplayer.de/images/...shotsec_010.jpg

http://doom3.planet-multiplayer.de/images/...shotsec_001.jpg

[Arumakani]

Hmmm...I think the speedtree technology they use in Oblivion is very good. Wouldn't Quake 4 if it using more advanced Doom3 stuff produce better outdoor stuff than Doom3?

[sparhawk]

Is that hole in the parachute intended or is it a clipping problem with the sky of the map? Otherwise this looks pretty cool!

[BlackThief]

Hmmm...I think the speedtree technology they use in Oblivion is very good. Wouldn't Quake 4 if it using more advanced Doom3 stuff produce better outdoor stuff than Doom3?

 

 

certainly not better than quake war's modified d3 engine that makes use of the megatexture technology. quake4's engine is actually pretty much the same as d3 except some improvements in the multiplayer code and I think I've heard that they improved ambient light as well, but I'm not sure on that one.

 

 

@spar - it's quite common that parachutes have holes in them

http://www.foreverflying.com/parachute-striped2.jpg

[Arumakani]

So can you mod for either Quake Wars or Quake 4?

[BlackThief]

yes splashdamage confirmed that they'll release an sdk with quake wars.

(and I guess they'll be quite modder-friendly, since the whole team consists of ex-quake2-3 modders)

[Arumakani]

So it'll be possible to do a Thief Style game with large outdoor environments with that sdk? Interesting. I've always wished for a huge city to explore Garrett style, but with more areas with secrets etc. Oblivion but one huge city with parks, and loads more people like a proper city, and hence more pickpocketing

[sparhawk]

@spar - it's quite common that parachutes have holes in them

http://www.foreverflying.com/parachute-striped2.jpg

 

HAH! I didn't know that.

[sparhawk]

So it'll be possible to do a Thief Style game with large outdoor environments with that sdk? Interesting.

 

You can do this already, because Doom 3 can also do large areas. You just can't use the megatexture extensions, which makes huge outdoorareas look more realistic in an easier way. The rendering is the same though.

[BlackThief]

You can do this already, because Doom 3 can also do large areas. You just can't use the megatexture extensions, which makes huge outdoorareas look more realistic in an easier way. The rendering is the same though.

 

yes but those stroggs have actually quite usefull tools for a thief:

http://doom3.planet-multiplayer.de/images/...2/etqwe34_g.jpg

 

..and there's SNOW

http://doom3.planet-multiplayer.de/images/...2/etqwe35_g.jpg

 

[sparhawk]

Wow! That almost reminds at BattleTech. And that snow looks definitely cool! Though it probably is mostly textures. Reminds me at Enemy Territory, which had some extremly beautifull snowy maps as well.

[Arumakani]

BlackThief, that would be cheating if a Thief was using those hover pod things

 

P.S. Off topic, but been playing the Thief DS fan mission called the Bridge. Absolutely brilliant. Good intro sequence too.

Edited June 1, 2006 by Arumakani