Leaning? Forward Leaning?

[sparhawk]

Backward leaning should be no problem to implement, once the other leaning is done.

[Denny]

Backward leaning should be no problem to implement, once the other leaning is done.

 

Great.

[ZylonBane]

I don't remember how forward leaning worked in T2 exactly, but it was mostly to be able to watch down over railings and stuff yes?

As I've been given to understand it, the player's physical model in Thief is a pair of bounding spheres covering the top and bottom half of Garrett's body. When you lean, only the top bounding sphere moves.

 

Works remarkably well, since they programmed a fair amount of "flex" into how far it can deviate from where the code wants it to be while leaning.

[Dram]

Yeah, that's what I heard too. With the current TDM lean the top half of the players' body rotates, so you actually get lit up when you lean. The lean is getting updated soon anyways, cos it's VERY buggy atm. But at least it's there

[Denny]

There's probably alot more important things to work on. I don't think leaning is the most difficult and timekilling function which has to be made at the moment?

[ZylonBane]

If the leaning is wrong, they may as well not bother.

[sparhawk]

I don't think leaning is the most difficult and timekilling function which has to be made at the moment?

 

Hah! You might be wrong there. I thought the same initially.

[Komag]

Hmm, that example of useful backwards lean is interesting, but I think not neccessary, because I would just lean left (out over the rail) and look up to my right to see. I don't think Garrett would want to lean backwards and possible fall off over the rail!

 

About the light gem thing, could it just be the bottom half that detects how much light you're in, so the top half and lean around the corner into the lit hallway without lighting up the gem?

[sparhawk]

If you lean into light, the lightgem will register it and this is correct behaviour. If you don't want to get lit up, stay out of light.

[Komag]

I didn't realize that was the design decision - is it?

 

I always liked the aspect of staying in the dark with leaning, because that's how it works with T1/2. I know you all aren't just mimicing T1/2, but if leaning in light lights me up I will be sad

 

I always figured in those cases it was more of a Garrett just peaking his head around but sort of magically/mysteriously staying masked in shadow.

[sparhawk]

I always considered the leaning into light without getting brighter a bug from the DarkEngine. Maybe it was due to the way how they did the leaning, or how they calculated the shadows.

In my opinion it doesn't make sense, because, after all, if you are leaning into a bright area, you ARE visible like normal. The only adavntage you have is, that your surface area is smaller, so depending on your surroundings and viewangle, you might be less visible. But not because you stay dark in such a case.

[Komag]

So is the light gem brightness calculated based not only on the brightness of the light, but how much of you is exposed to it?

 

If so, that would be a fair enough comprimise, because then leaning would only expose 1/3 to 1/2 of you to the lit hallway, thus the gem would at least be dimmer than if you actually stepped out there. Surely just leaning a little into the light should give you a non-visibility advantage over full-on standing out in the light.

[ZylonBane]

I don't know about the lightgem specifically, but leaning DOES make you visible. Goggles has many turret rounds to the head to prove it.

[Komag]

forgot about SS2, yeah I remember getting shot at from turrets

[woah]

I do believe one's light-gem should be affected by leaning, but I believe it should be less than normal if you are not protruded too far around a bend.

[Dram]

The lightgem analyzes how bright you are (or a model that is rendered every frame but you cannot see it), so doing a full lean around the corner lights you up about half or whatnot. I prefer no light up too, but oh well.

[demagogue]

I can see the PC being made visible, but it should be noticably less, that is, by quite a notable factor.

 

The way I think about it ... the player should recognizably feel less exposed than just strafing/creeping a bit to the side and back, otherwise what's even the advantage of leaning at all - s/he may as well just walk into the hallway a bit and back. But I have some trust, esp if you playtest it enough, that you guys will get it right.

 

And for the record, I liked how Darkengine kept me dark when leaning, too. It really made me love the leaning function as something that was really being my friend in the game, smudging reality for my benefit, maybe ... so I liked to use it all the time, because that situation comes up all the time.

Edited June 20, 2006 by demagogue

[Dram]

My thoughts exactly.

[ZylonBane]

Garrett doesn't just lean, he Keeper-leans.

 

Woooooooooo.

[Komag]

hehe

[Ombrenuit]

I honestly thought the leaning backwards idea was a joke (especially with the graphic). Why the hell would you break your neck twisting it 180 degrees as your body acrobatically leaned backwards when you could just turn around? What, am I missing something? Is one just more convenient?

[Komag]

I honestly thought the leaning backwards idea was a joke (especially with the graphic). Why the hell would you break your neck twisting it 180 degrees as your body acrobatically leaned backwards when you could just turn around? What, am I missing something? Is one just more convenient?

 

 

I think you're looking at it wrong. The idea is that you back up to the rail, lean back a bit out over the rail, looking upward as you do so, to see the guy up on the upper level. Kind of like leaning back a bit to look up at the top shelf in the closet

[sparhawk]

So is the light gem brightness calculated based not only on the brightness of the light, but how much of you is exposed to it?

 

The lightgem averages the total surface brightness of the player. This also means - the less of the player is exposed, the less it impact it has.

[Komag]

I guess that means no more exploiting that sliver of pitch darkness in the middle of the doorway, hehe!

[sparhawk]

Right. This will not work anymore. But I'm sure that people will find other exploits. There are always some to find.