Movement Control

[mike mayday]

I'm sorry if starting another topic is against the rules, this just seemed like a completely different thing.

My question: how much attention are you guys going to pay to movement control? After discovering this forum I decided to replay at least one mission of t2 (having chosen my favourite about the Angelwatch- mostly because of my love towards the Thieve's Highway) and I must say that things were VERY frustrating. An obvious thing would be to implement a separate key for grabbing ledges and ropes (it's mantling? I'm not sure), because Garret would often try to jump instead of mantling, causing unnecessary noise (after dropping back on the floor) or death (having fallen down the ledge).

My other request would be more control over jumping- for example holding space, then holding a direction button and then releasing space should make the PC perform a jump in the given direction (so that we can jump from a standing position). Honestly, the Flashback game seemed to allow better control ;P

 

This is all just suggestions, but if it's easily implemented, I'd be very grateful.

[New Horizon]

I'm sorry if starting another topic is against the rules, this just seemed like a completely different thing.

My question: how much attention are you guys going to pay to movement control? After discovering this forum I decided to replay at least one mission of t2 (having chosen my favourite about the Angelwatch- mostly because of my love towards the Thieve's Highway) and I must say that things were VERY frustrating. An obvious thing would be to implement a separate key for grabbing ledges and ropes (it's mantling? I'm not sure), because Garret would often try to jump instead of mantling, causing unnecessary noise (after dropping back on the floor) or death (having fallen down the ledge).

 

This doesn't require a separate key. The problems your experiencing have little to do with the fact that you have to use the jump button for either of these actions, it's simply limitations within the technology to detect the ledge or the rope perfectly at all times. Our mantle and rope detection is very precise, when it comes time for tweaking, I'm pretty sure we'll have to tone it down as it's very sensitive at the moment.

 

My other request would be more control over jumping- for example holding space, then holding a direction button and then releasing space should make the PC perform a jump in the given direction (so that we can jump from a standing position). Honestly, the Flashback game seemed to allow better control ;P

 

This is all just suggestions, but if it's easily implemented, I'd be very grateful.

 

Again, I don't think there is anything wrong with the current system that tweaking won't fix. The core movements are already in place. Why complicate a system that isn't broken?

[Komag]

I've gotten pretty good at making a "running jump" from a nearly standing position!

[mike mayday]

Our mantle and rope detection is very precise, when it comes time for tweaking, I'm pretty sure we'll have to tone it down as it's very sensitive at the moment.

I'm very glad to hear that!

 

Again, I don't think there is anything wrong with the current system that tweaking won't fix. The core movements are already in place. Why complicate a system that isn't broken?

 

Basically to allow jumping forward from a standing position (like when you're standing on a ledge and you want to jump to a ledge on the opposite wall- currently that's 50% risk of just falling down the ledge while this should be a really easy thing to do).

[OrbWeaver]

Basically to allow jumping forward from a standing position (like when you're standing on a ledge and you want to jump to a ledge on the opposite wall- currently that's 50% risk of just falling down the ledge while this should be a really easy thing to do).

 

Is it? Have you ever tried in real life?

[Gildoran]

You got me curious so I just tried... Without practice, I can consistantly jump across a 4-foot gap from a standing position at its edge.

[DopeFishhh]

And because we can assume garrets better at it than gildoran he could jump a little further. Perhaps tying the lean forward action in with the jump action to do a standing long jump could work. The latest hitman you don't even have a jump button, he really has no need to jump on the players whim, only at certain places where a jump is necessary and to trigger that you have to walk upto the spot and push forward. This of course does equate to level designers needing to specifically implement it (and potentially unique animations need to be made to cover unique situations).

[mike mayday]

Perhaps tying the lean forward action in with the jump action to do a standing long jump could work.

 

That's a very good idea, IMHO.

[Komag]

... The latest hitman you don't even have a jump button, he really has no need to jump on the players whim, only at certain places where a jump is necessary and to trigger that you have to walk upto the spot and push forward. This of course does equate to level designers needing to specifically implement it (and potentially unique animations need to be made to cover unique situations).

 

That's something about the demo that turned me off very badly. It made the game feel like "go here, do this, go here, do this..." holding my hand instead of letting me play.

[Gildoran]

That also always annoyed me too... In Hitman I, they had a really cool level that was a complete simulation of an entire hotel (every single room was in it and maids were systematically cleaning them, and people were wandering from place to place, swimming in the pool, etc). For one part, you had to jump across one balcony to the other, but your character would automatically do it whenever you got too close, which often caused me to jump at just the wrong moment and get spotted. That always drove me absolutely nuts.

[Ishtvan]

I agree, the automatic jumping/climbing actions in Hitman were quite frustrating in terms of doing them when you didn't want to / not doing them when you wanted to (climbing thru windows in Blood Money = ARGH!)

[bob_arctor]

Especially with the 3rd person camera.

 

The demo was a tutorial though, apparently the real thing is very freeform. But I'm not buying it until they release a better demo proving how it works. I never quite get on with Hitman. Thief is just so much better I suppose.

[Gildoran]

Although I don't like the automatic jumping and some other aspects of Hitman I's interface, I've mostly been very impressed with it. It seems like it did a lot of things before many other games. I find myself wondering if it might be the first game with ragdoll physics and articulated figures... in the Jungle-level, the many leaves and vines are physically simulated and interact with the player, predating CrySis (sp?) in that regard by several years. And though some of the levels only have one prefered path to completion, most have many different ways of acheiving your goals.

 

Granted, I know nothing of the latest Hitman.

[Ishtvan]

@bob: Yes, the actual game is much more free-form than the demo. You can drop all your weapons and still complete the mission, for examle.

 

I would recommend the new one if you liked any of the others. The controls have a few issues (mostly automatic stuff that you don't want to do breaking your cover, and climbing thru windows not working most of the time until you've mashed buttons for 30 seconds while standing in front of a window), but the mission design is simply amazing.