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Guard Responce To Being Trapped.


Irenices

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The question is, what exactly does swearing add? Yes, I agree it would add very slightly to the immersiveness - I don't belive the work fuck to be exclusive to the twentieth century. I agree, all things being equal - there's no reason not to include profanities.

But, are all things equal?

There's the obvous issue of context. A foulmouthed guard is a foulmouthed guard, but probably not so much in the presence of the noblewoman who employs him. Its going to take time, both to allow for that context, and for mappers to add it.

Then there's the fact that a lot of people (for mostly puratanical reasons, certainly) don't want swaering included. Why purposfully alianate your audience?

Certainly, you could record the samples, then mappers could not use them. As Oddity (if my alcohol addled memory serves) was strongly against the inclusion of a female thief - which mappers could choose not to use, as it would add nothing tangible to gameplay, but would take time to include, how is this any different?

Edited by Bob Obo
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For the most part, profanity is associated with a lack of imagination when it comes to storytelling.

 

Profanity and cuss words are highly unlickly in a map.

 

A. No one wants to hear cuss words- it is boring. When fun invented words, like a certain T2 (T) word, were

added they were loved becuase they let the imagination of the player take over and create a meaning.

And unless you offend yourself you'll be happy.

 

B. It's unprofessional- No games I know of do it and no games I play do it. Minus a FEW exceptions.

 

C. Cuss words just aren't thief-like. If you play T1 and T2 you get a feal for a Thiefy Realm- It simply DOES

NOT USE PROFANITY in any 20th century or other way. Now "Damn"was ok for the culty reason

for "Builderz." They surely would Damn those they didn't consider in the light of thier order. And "Shit"

mearly expains Poop.

 

D. Reason A should be enough! -Thank you

Edited by Elusive_Thief
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As an example you can read "Wheel Of Time" from Robert Jordan. It's a fantasy story and the characters also swear, but they swear different. In the entire book there is no 'fuck' or similar, but that doesn't make the story less intersting or unbelievable. In fact the phrases that he uses are easily recognized as swearing in that other world and if you read that book they will gain the same meaning. It is because of the context that makes it swearing, so there doesn't need to be special words. In Thief it's similar. If a guard would say 'fuck' or similar, it would break immersion more for me than using other words, simply because this doesn't fit.

Gerhard

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No I am with Oddity there, made up swear words are stupid. Go with the real thing.

 

However as I said use words like "Fuck" with proper old fashioned idiomatic ways, or contruct old sentances. Using "Fuck off you wanker!" is definately modern.

Saying "Did'y'hear 'bout the lady in Wutheran's castle? Bin fuckin' the guards in the stables!" or somesuch would be better.

 

I know that example is flawed, but hey I don't even have an English A level to my name!

 

Or find some real old swear words that have fallen out of use.

 

"God's blood" or "God's spit" maybe?

 

"B. It's unprofessional- No games I know of do it and no games I play do it. Minus a FEW exceptions."

 

Books and films do. Why not games?

 

Of course the tragedy is that Oddity argued his case in such a vitrol-filled way.

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I hope this doesn't come across "troll"-esque, but fuck IS a made up swear word.

 

Every word is made up, and given meaning only because we all agree it is so.

 

Simply because "fuck" is much more instantly recognizable, and therefore illiciting more of a response, doesn't give it any more (or less) merit.

 

consider this ad-line for a pornographic film I once saw:

 

"The wettest, wide-open, juice slapping beaver action..."

 

Not a single swear, but the implication (if it can be so called) is crystal clear.

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I hope this doesn't come across "troll"-esque, but fuck IS a made up swear word. Every word is made up, and given meaning only because we all agree it is so.

 

"Made up" is usually taken to mean "consciously invented". Words like "fuck" are not made up in this sense, they arise through the natural process of linguistic evolution.

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As an example you can read "Wheel Of Time" from Robert Jordan. It's a fantasy story and the characters also swear, but they swear different. In the entire book there is no 'fuck' or similar, but that doesn't make the story less intersting or unbelievable. In fact the phrases that he uses are easily recognized as swearing in that other world and if you read that book they will gain the same meaning. It is because of the context that makes it swearing, so there doesn't need to be special words. In Thief it's similar. If a guard would say 'fuck' or similar, it would break immersion more for me than using other words, simply because this doesn't fit.

 

 

Robert Jordan's a talentless cunt, and Wheel of Time is the worst kind of generic trash writing, and getting worse by the book, so that's not much of an example to use.

I could piont to a far superior seioes of books and fantasy world, the Fire and Ice series by George R R Martin, a much, much better writer, and he uses fuck and cunt quite often in charcater dialogue, that doens't detract from the book at all, and makes the characters seem more real, the people use the same swear words we do ourselves, not some stupid nonsense words.

Civillisation will not attain perfection until the last stone, from the last church, falls on the last priest.

- Emil Zola

 

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To be honest I was bored of fantasy by at the most 15. Wheel of Time is very good for 13 year olds.

 

Fantasy is all the same, so formulaic, so dull.

 

Except now with new stuff like China Mièville and Jeff Vandermeer (although they can be a bit too pretentious) it is interesting, taking on Steampunk Thiefy stuff, and crazy new details. Originality! At last!

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YOu should try the Song Of Ice And Fire series then, it's not generic fantasy at all, there's virtually no fantasy in it for the first four books (he's writng the fifth now, or rahter part 2 of 4), it's basicaly set in a gritty medieval world, with some great multi-dimensional characters. I couldn't stop reading and did the first three very lenthgy books in the last few weeks.

Civillisation will not attain perfection until the last stone, from the last church, falls on the last priest.

- Emil Zola

 

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I even like generic fanatsy. It all depends how well it's written, and the dialogue and charcaters. For example, the Black Magician Triology by Trudi Canavan is very enjoyable, despite it being typical and generic fantasy (well maybe apart from the main character being female).

Civillisation will not attain perfection until the last stone, from the last church, falls on the last priest.

- Emil Zola

 

character models site

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YOu should try the Song Of Ice And Fire series then, it's not generic fantasy at all, there's virtually no fantasy in it for the first four books (he's writng the fifth now, or rahter part 2 of 4), it's basicaly set in a gritty medieval world, with some great multi-dimensional characters. I couldn't stop reading and did the first three very lenthgy books in the last few weeks.

 

Thanks for the tip. I mark it up for ordering on Amazon. :) Is "A game of Throne" the first part of the series?

 

As for more "realistic" Fantasy. I have a series of three books in a wiking szenario which I also found rather good. It's an alternate history, where the wikings overcame the english. :) At least the first two books are rather good, because they focus more on the wiking and how they live, only the third volume becomes really fantasy (the first two also, but not so strong). I have to dig up up the name though because I have forgotten it's name. I read it several years ago.

Gerhard

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One could say the exact same thing for ALL genre fiction. And one would be wrong. It's just that, as in all things, most of it is crap.

 

And clearly you've never read any of Terry Pratchett's work.

 

Heh. How could someone who reads, and is male, get by in the UK without reading any Pratchett? Everyone's read him.

 

I mean fantasy like those big 10 book series (I am being general, I mean that rubbish fantasy stuff) and in each one a boy comes from a small village, from being a farmer, to the tower/land/castle of Jgk'llooopol, taken by a merry band of adventurers, and discovers he has a power in something. Plus buxom wenches.

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"Made up" is usually taken to mean "consciously invented". Words like "fuck" are not made up in this sense, they arise through the natural process of linguistic evolution.

 

 

Any word that is used to encapsulate a thought is "consciously invented" at some point, since that is where they originate....out of conscious thought. That we all eventually agree on the meaning of the words we speak is the result of the natural process of linguistic evolution.

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Thanks for the tip. I mark it up for ordering on Amazon. :) Is "A game of Throne" the first part of the series?

 

As for more "realistic" Fantasy. I have a series of three books in a wiking szenario which I also found rather good. It's an alternate history, where the wikings overcame the english. :) At least the first two books are rather good, because they focus more on the wiking and how they live, only the third volume becomes really fantasy (the first two also, but not so strong). I have to dig up up the name though because I have forgotten it's name. I read it several years ago.

 

Yes, A Game of Thrones is the first, followed by A Clash of Kings, followed by A Storm of Swords, and then THe 4th book was too big and had to be slipt in two parts, the first part is called A Feast for Crows. There will be seven books in all.

 

Even more realistic and gritty historical novels like the Viking stuff you mentioned are to e found in Bernard Cornwell's novels, apart from his most famous 'Sharpe' series, which has been dramatised for TV starring Sean Bean (Bomomir in LotR mioves) and set during the Napoleonic wars, his other books are historical accounts of real battles, with names like 'An Archers Tale' and set from the perspective of a longbowman, and other works set aywhere form the Dark ages, to Medieval times. He's also written an alternative King Arthur story (The Warlord Chronicles series) which is also a realistic depiction of Dark Ages warfare, no magic swords or casting of lightning bolts.

Civillisation will not attain perfection until the last stone, from the last church, falls on the last priest.

- Emil Zola

 

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Thief and this mod are medieval games, and as such, people swearing as we would think of it today is totally out of place. Hearing "taff" and it's variations (taffed, taffing, etc.) spoken by guards in their conversations is an integral part of the experience. :)

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Although I like fantasy settings and magic and such, I've never been a huge fan of made-up swearwords... they always sound so silly and unoriginal; their grammatical usage is usually identical to some existing modern swear word with which they share phonetic characteristics.

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I won't be recording your typical profanity. It's boring. Fuck fuck fuck. It just wouldn't feel right in a thief inspired game. There will definately be some hot tounged guards, but I would prefer to be a little more original in their choice of insult.

 

So, I take it you will be original wiht all the other words as well (i.e create a new language) or is it just the swear words that require originality?

At the least, you're surely going to do adequate research into the way people spoke in medieval England and only use words which they would have used?

If you don't, it simply looks as though you're picking on swear words unjustly because you're a prude.

Civillisation will not attain perfection until the last stone, from the last church, falls on the last priest.

- Emil Zola

 

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