Mage Guild And Inventors' Guild...

[Maddermadcat]

I've noticed that the Dark Mod has 4 groups planned: the Pagans, Builders (the Hammers), the Mage Guild, and the Inventors' Guild.

The Pagans are supposed to be the mages and the Hammers are the Inventors' Guild in every Thief game I've played... So why are you adding the two other groups?

Oooh, and what about the Keepers? Any chance we'll see voicepacks such for them?

[Springheel]

Easy, short answer: This isn't Thief.

 

Check out our Wiki page for more information about The Dark Mod setting.

 

http://www.thirdfilms.com/darkwiki/index.php/Main_Page

[Maddermadcat]

Any chance there will be Thief model and voice packs released?

EDIT: After looking at the Wiki entry on factions, this is starting to seem less like Thief and more like a generic fantasy setting... Makes me want to act suicidal and listen to linkin park because of the disappointment.

Unless there will be model and voice packs released with Thief characters.

Edited July 22, 2006 by Maddermadcat

[Gildoran]

I think you're overreacting. Need I point out that there was a sect of mages in Thief? And Mechanists invented all sorts of things, as do the Inventor's Guild. So it's not like mage and inventor guilds are entirely without Thiefy precedence. Of course, our setting has nothing equivelant to Keepers and I don't think the Inventor's Guild has any relations to the Builders. Our setting isn't the Thief universe. However, we want TDM's universe to be enjoyable for fans of the Thief universe, so we're going for the same sort of ambiance. Most maps that would feel at home in the Thief universe will also feel at home in the TDM universe.

 

Although we can't and won't prevent others from releasing Thief model/voice packs, we will not support them as that would be copyright infringement.

[Maddermadcat]

Although we can't and won't prevent others from releasing Thief model/voice packs, we will not support them as that would be copyright infringement.

Copyright infringement? Seems rediculous, but I know what you mean. It's still disappointing. I'll wait for the Thief packs, I guess.

You think I'm overreacting? I am overreacting. But only as a joke.

Edited July 22, 2006 by Maddermadcat

[Ishtvan]

Mods have been shut down by corporations for copyright infringement before. It's not ridiculous. So no, we will not be releasing Thief packs of anything. We hope that most people realise that you don't need an exact carbon copy of Thief to create a game setting that people can enjoy.

[New Horizon]

The Pagans are supposed to be the mages and the Hammers are the Inventors' Guild in every Thief game I've played... So why are you adding the two other groups?

 

I'm really quite confused as to why you say that we're adding two completely new groups. That's just not true. There were indeed separate pagan and mage groups in the original Thief series, and our Inventors guild is a 'variation' of the Mechanist's...with the exception that they're no longer religious, but they do have some rather 'odd' creations. I don't know what made you jump to such far off conclusions, and we're not a generic fantasy setting....but at the same time...we can not recreate Thief outright. It's the gameplay that counts anyway...not what the different groups are named.

[Springheel]

We hope that most people realise that you don't need an exact carbon copy of Thief to create a game setting that people can enjoy.

 

Most people do, but there are always a few that can't seem to grasp the concept. Like those people who posted when T2X came out that they wouldn't play because Garrett wasn't the main character.

[Elusive_Thief]

Mods have been shut down by corporations for copyright infringement before. It's not ridiculous. So no, we will not be releasing Thief packs of anything. We hope that most people realise that you don't need an exact carbon copy of Thief to create a game setting that people can enjoy.

 

Ahh the old copyright infringement....... Well at least now in creating a DIFFERENET, but still Thief Like, Atmospheric Game you can always fix the things you didn't like before in The Thief Series, whatever they may be.

[ZylonBane]

Wait... there's an INVENTORS guild?

 

Hoookay, that sounds slightly neat at first, but what would that mean in actual practice? A guild of nothing but people who invent? Seems like something that would have, at best, maybe a couple dozen members in an entire city. What would they even need a guild for? How often does anybody ever say, "I need to hire an inventor!"?

 

No, the steady money isn't in inventing, it's in building other people's inventions. A machinist's guild would make infinitely more sense than an inventor's guild.

[New Horizon]

No, the steady money isn't in inventing, it's in building other people's inventions. A machinist's guild would make infinitely more sense than an inventor's guild.

 

Well, we've got the same idea...just a different name.

[Gildoran]

I sort of wonder if that was a jest on ZB's part, for the purpose of suggesting the Inventors Guild be named similarly to their Thief counterparts.

[Komag]

Well, they could be more machinists and the people just call them the inventors because what they make is so crazy amazing to the average poor folk

[Ombrenuit]

Yes, let's apply the rule: when faced with something new, apply stereotypes. Strangely, as New Horizon said, this is incredibly close to the factions presented by the original Thief. Of course, we wouldn't want to have a new spin on old ideas now, would we? Yes, as students we must duplicate every degree in our master's handywork. We must never find our own style nor use the master's knowledge to express ourselves.

 

"The apprentice enlists to one day breath life into his aims. Once that vision is lost, his creations will be as rigid as death." -The Book of Changes, Inventor Haldrik

 

Every cover song you have ever heard is different from the original. Familiarity is the best spice to encourage growth, yet a degree beyond familiarity, and there is nothing new to grow into. We all ambition to surpass our tutelage, to put it into practice, to give our will physical demension. As the son has the likeness and manner of his father, they do not share the same skin, they both are creatures in themselves.

Edited July 22, 2006 by Ombrenuit

[Gildoran]

Wasn't there some quote somewhere that "he who follows in the footsteps of his teacher shall never surpass him?"

[New Horizon]

That's why I feel we're simply walking beside our teachers footsteps.

[Order of the Hammer Bureaucrat]

In my opinion an inventors' guild is a group of people who are smarter than average and have more expectations and ambitions regarding the world. They also think they have more creativity and inventiveness than the other technical people who might study something very well but be incapable of conceiving an idea on their own. I am extrapolating this from my friend's and my own feelings towards my colleagues at the uni.

[ZylonBane]

I sort of wonder if that was a jest on ZB's part, for the purpose of suggesting the Inventors Guild be named similarly to their Thief counterparts.

No, that was just a happy coincidence.

 

Seriously, what else would you call a guild of craftsmen skilled in building machines?

 

Calling it the Inventor's Guild would be like a group of carpenters calling themselves the Architect's Guild.

[Gildoran]

To use your analogy a bit further, I had figured the guild was set up so that the lower-ranking members were carpenters, and the more experienced ones were architects. A group of powerful architects leading a bunch of carpenters might reasonably call themselves the Architects' Guild.

[Dram]

OMG people....to put it straight - our guilds NAMES are different from Thief's FOR OBVIOUS REASON. -unfortunately- we cannot stop people from using the original names in their fan missions, but we do not support it. The guilds themselves are -strangely- similar.

[Ishtvan]

I always thought of the Inventor's guild more as a business venture led by engineers. They were originally employed by the state to make war machines and stuff during wars with neighboring city-states, then started selling everyday-use products based on what they learned, and made it rich by keeping the technology behind them proprietary. They're still very secretive now and even the gov't officials are kept in the dark about what makes the machines work. They probably do have a number of machinists/smiths/metallurgists working for them, but I think it's okay to call those support staff guild members, if you think of the guild like a corporation.

[ZylonBane]

How about, "Automatonists"? Eh, didn't think so.

 

But seriously... what about "Engineer's Guild"? "Engine" was the term used for all complex machinery back in Victorian times. Steam engine, siege engine, analytical engine, etc.

 

It just that, the more I think about it, the sillier "Inventor's Guild" sounds. I say it, and I picture a convention hall filled with mad scientists. One just doesn't think of inventors as the sort of people that band together. They're quirky and individualistic.

 

EDIT: Just saw Ishtvan's post. The problem with explanations like that... is that you need an explanation at all. A good name doesn't need to be explained to make sense.

Edited July 23, 2006 by ZylonBane

[Ombrenuit]

ZylonBane, stop posting. For god's sake. Your opinion on every matter is combative and you never think things through. You are stubborn and condescending towards things that you have little understanding and absolutely no say in. No, you aren't the voice of reason, you are the voice of condescending opposition towards the voice of reason. Don't even bother replying to this post either. You have never said anything that I felt had an ounce of thoughfulness behind it.

[Mark]

I think it's worth pointing out that the fan missions don't have to adhere to the official Dark Mod universe. Copyright issues aside, it seems to me that there's nothing to prevent someone from making a mission situated in the Thief universe, or a different one altogether. It's not as though the models will have "Inventor's Guild" stamped on their chests, so it should be easy enough to repurpose them for use in a universe where it's the "Machinist's Guild" instead, for example.

[ZylonBane]

You have never said anything that I felt had an ounce of thoughfulness behind it.

Then I extend my deepest sympathies to you and your loved ones for your learning disability.