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Mage Guild And Inventors' Guild...


Maddermadcat

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I think someone wants to move from the art dept into management! Keep reaching for the sky, sport!

 

How can you sit there even for a moment and actually pretend to have a grasp on any of this? You don't, and you should face it. That you should march onto a forum and tell a team which has worked on a project for two years how they should manage it? What makes you so sure there haven't already been extensive debates behind the scenes about faction names?

 

There are actual important things demanding attention and effort right now, which people are working on, over a bunch of factions and fictions which take absolute last priority in the development of a toolkit. I attempted to make that point clear in my first post, but apparently you alone and ZylonBane didn't get it.

 

And with that, it's enough time wasted on this. ^_^

 

I agree with you SneaksyDave. Production has been done professionally by most of the TDM guys before. You can have your cake and eat it too. It will be done - WHEN it is DONE.

 

And no comment on the Builders?

 

And yes they already commented on the builders when I asked earlier so search the forums under "Builders" to get your results and don't be so lazy.

Edited by Elusive_Thief
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I usually stay out of discussions like this, mostly because they keep coming up every month or so. However, this time I feel I have to add my two cents.

 

First, the irony of this thread is hilarious. People keep on discussing how long it can take to discuss a simple feature. Perfect.

 

Now, please, you know we're still mixing the dough, no use to ramble on about the decoration of the cake yet.We're well aware things will need ironing out, and if ZylonBane mentions something like how the frob highlight fades in and out in the Thief games for example, we don't just ignore it. We care as much about these details as anyone else, we're fanboys too, after all.

 

We care in fact so much about these little things, that we decided it would enhance productivity to push them aside for the time being and revisit them later - do you honestly believe we wouldn't be eager to put all the fun stuff in there right now? I tell you it's fucking hard to hold back with the storyline, blingbling, decorations, enhancements, improvements, and new ideas.

 

Basic functionality of the Thief games is our event horizon. New lands lie beyond there - I believe I can say that everybody on the team eagerly awaits that we reach this line so we can start with the FUN stuff.

 

Ok, now I'll say a bit about the Wiki Dark Mod Universe blurb. As you know, a toolset should be something versatile that allows for the most freedom in productivity for its user. The amount of "but if someone wants to..." posts in the team forums is insane - I almost pitty the people (especially the coding department), because every time they announce they're done, somebody thinks of a possibilty not covered by the functionality. And they go back to work. (Ishtvan even turned somewhat masochistic lately by challenging people to come up with things the Objective system can't cover)

 

My point is: Even if we try to create a "neutral point of view" toolset, there is a minimum of guidance we need for the developement process. Think artistic consitency, for example. It's either that or you people get unskinned AI, objects, no textures and no sound - to exeggerate a bit. That's what this setting is for. We will indulge in happy hours - nay, days - of squabbling about stuff like faction names and story when the time for this has come.

 

One more. The Thief fan community is a beacon for smart and observant, but unfortunaly also incredibly thick-headed and pedantic people. Put those characters together on a team, and you'll have to agree that a consensus to cover the basics and then go into the war about details is the only way of getting things done.

I guess the *ahem* touchy reaction by some people is due to the fact that they would love nothing more than to put in all the little trinkets right now, but have to cope with the self imposed ban. It's like discussing sex infront of a monk who knows sometime, sometime he'll bang through the entire choir eternal.

 

End rant.

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Schatten's post sums it up nicely.

 

Just wanted to add, I love how we get critisized by some people for not including a blatant copy of something in Thief like the Keepers, and then get criticism from different people for making the Builders too close to the their inspiration. I think complaints on both fronts means we're doing a good job?

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:D I think you are right Schatten. The thing is if people want this or that they should really do it themselves once the toolset is released. I'll be trying 3rd person etc. No point in bothering others about it. After all I wouldn't want to do what you've all been doing on my own :blink:

ZylonBane's confession about himself:

"What can I say, I'm a jerk. A three times all American Jerk, from Jerksville, Kentucky. Yee Haw"

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:D I think you are right Schatten. The thing is if people want this or that they should really do it themselves once the toolset is released. I'll be trying 3rd person etc. No point in bothering others about it. After all I wouldn't want to do what you've all been doing on my own :blink:

 

 

And we'll be mocking you.

 

If you two can't be civil, then don't address each other at all. Keep the poison to a minimum. Simple really.

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"Astronaut, Fireman, and Racecar Drivers Guild"

 

They've been cut!!! I'm putting them in my FM! ZOOOM! Mario Karting addon!

 

"It's like if a bunch of graphic designers, ballet dancers and guitar players joined together and called themselves the Artist's Guild."

 

As in what, a really good name for them? :P. That's a good name, it's all inclusive.

 

"Uncle Gay's Baker's Guild. Who cares?"

 

Me. I want a big gay cake shop.

 

"Just wanted to add, I love how we get critisized by some people for not including a blatant copy of something in Thief like the Keepers, and then get criticism from different people for making the Builders too close to the their inspiration. I think complaints on both fronts means we're doing a good job?"

 

I am glad the Keepers aren't there. TDS focused on the keepers, and they were rubbish. I've had enough of them. If in an FM there is a shadowy organisation then they will just be generic-cloaked-person (hopefully included in the resources) because you'd have to be a pretty stupid secret organisation to go round telling everyone.

 

And the inventors name is fine. And you don't have to stick to the lore in FMs. No-where in the wiki does it say that lamps are organic looking things with horns but I thought lamps like that looked cool so did that.

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Schatten wrote: if ZylonBane mentions something like how the frob highlight fades in and out in the Thief games for example, we don't just ignore it. We care as much about these details as anyone else, we're fanboys too, after all.

Not to stir controversy, or anything... ;) but if I didn't happen to mention fading frobs in our internal forums and support / re-iterate the beauty of them, it might've been ignored. And Zylon & I would be left without our beautiful, fading frobs forever (or at least until release). The majority of the programmers who could actually code the fades were initially pretty against it and would've liked to see the idea die a certain death.

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The majority of the programmers who could actually code the fades were initially pretty against it and would've liked to see the idea die a certain death.

To say that's disconcerting would be an understatement. The very reason Thief made such a lasting impression was because of the insane level of polish. Heck, the lack of polish was one of the reasons Deadly Shadows was so quickly forgotten.

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To say that's disconcerting would be an understatement. The very reason Thief made such a lasting impression was because of the insane level of polish. Heck, the lack of polish was one of the reasons Deadly Shadows was so quickly forgotten.

 

That's one of the few imo. One of them was definately the style of game, and the way you played it. TDS was not enjoyable because it was an 1sy person shooter while t1/2 were sneakers. The wonderful thing about T1/2 was that you actually felt like a Thief - weak compared to the guards and had to use stealth to get past rather then go head on. This made the gameplay balanced, and TDS made you feel like you were "teh uber leetzorz azzazzin" who could kill a guard from accross the globe. It was very saddening to see thief raped like that.

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The majority of the programmers who could actually code the fades were initially pretty against it and would've liked to see the idea die a certain death.

 

Nobody was "against" it as far as I can recall. There were some concerns that implementation would be difficult, but this turned out not to be the case and the feature was therefore swiftly implemented.

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Rule of thumb - if you like to tell people something, it's probably bullcrap. In other words, if it's fun to tell, especially if it has that "oooooo, ohhhhhh" factor, be suspicious. RESIST THE URGE!

shadowdark50.gif keep50.gif
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