Thief Model Ingame

[Ishtvan]

It's not going to light us up though right? O.o

 

It should, but that depends on extra code to move or tilt the lightgem model.

[New Horizon]

The lightgem is tied to the player camera, so when the camera moves to look around the corner...the gem moves out a bit too. So yeah, it already does light the player up a bit. If the effect is too bad, I'm sure we could do the same bonus that will be used for crouching. Only seems right since our lightgem is pretty sensitive already and only a small amount of the player would actually be exposed while leaning.

[Ishtvan]

We still have to decide about whether the visibility algorithm will test multiple points on the player for occlusion, and whether there will be a bonus based on the % occluded. If that is done, we may not need any hardcoded advantages for the lightgem.

 

As Spar pointed out, a blanket bonus from leaning is wrong in the case where you have an AI standing right behind you who could see you regardless of whether you were leaned/un-leaned. A realistic bonus should only be applied when an AI looks at you and sees only the leaned part of you.

[New Horizon]

As Spar pointed out, a blanket bonus from leaning is wrong in the case where you have an AI standing right behind you who could see you regardless of whether you were leaned/un-leaned. A realistic bonus should only be applied when an AI looks at you and sees only the leaned part of you.

 

True, quite true.

[Springheel]

We still have to decide about whether the visibility algorithm will test multiple points on the player for occlusion, and whether there will be a bonus based on the % occluded.

 

We still have to decide that?? I thought it was just a matter of deciding which method to use to accomplish it. I can't imagine anyone saying that it's acceptable for a modern stealth game to treat a player who is 95% occluded the same as one who is 100% visible.

[Ishtvan]

I guess I meant we still have to decide if we can do that before some release date or not. Ideally the answer would be yes.

[Domarius]

You shouldn't have to use the leaning anim as a standing anim - the af_pose anim has him standing bolt upright.

 

It is certainly wierd how the leaning anim is from a standing position but the walking anim is hunched over. I think the leaning anim will have to be re-animated from a hunched over position.

 

 

 

If you need a working def file, hm - all I put in there was the export stuff, no entity stuff. All you should have to do is copy and paste some entity stuff from another character and rename some things. I could do this tonight or NewHorizon could just commit the one he hacked up

[Springheel]

Ok, I've had to guess how hunched over the character is likely to be most of the time, but here's the picture based on the current Thief model. Currently the eyes in the AF pose are at 82 DoomUnits. They should be at approximately 75 (where the red line is), which should put them around 68 when hunched over.

 

It's a resize of about 90%. Is this enough for you to go on, Dom?

 

[Domarius]

Yeah that should do it. As long as you got your eye height right. If a bunch of characters are in the same screen shot, then we can be absolutely sure that the height you suggest can be applied consistantly to all of them.

 

When you do up one for the Elite guard, I advise adding him into the same screenshot as this one, next to the Thief, lengthening the image each time a new character is inserted.

[Springheel]

then we can be absolutely sure that the height you suggest can be applied consistantly to all of them.

 

Well, we aren't aiming to have all the characters exactly the same height. Guards will still be taller than the thief, just not as extreme as they are currently.

[Domarius]

I'm not talking about their individual height, I'm talking about relative scale.

 

The Elite guard is bigger than the others right now. This is not because he's a tall man, it's because he's the wrong scale.

[Domarius]

I hope you won't be offended. I've had a think about this, and I think that only something like the following image will the following example will ensure there is a consistent scale across all the models and that everyone agrees what scale they should be in relation to each other, and that I won't be going back multiple times to re-scale characters.

 

This is a mock-up version of what I think we need for me to work from.

 

Each character that needs resizing is in the image. They appear twice.

 

The left hand copy is their original image as seen in the Doom 3 editor - note that they were all next to each other when this screen shot was taken, and only split up afterwards in photoshop. This is important.

(But this is a mockup - I didn't take the screenshot, I'm just using NewHorizon's image and I don't know if its a straight screenshot or not.)

 

The right hand copy is the same character scaled down or up as nessecary, to what they should be (using photoshop).

 

We can actually use this as a template for future character scale reference. It's really worth getting this right, at this stage, before many more characters are modeled.

[Springheel]

Ok, I'm going to take your word for it that resizing the models is fairly straightforward. I'm going to use the D3 characters as a base, since I think everyone agrees that they look about the right size when you're walking around. I'll post an image like yours later today.

[Domarius]

Ah good, so there is some base that everyone agrees on then (the Doom 3 characters). Looking forward to the pic.

[Springheel]

Ok, here's two. The first has a comparison between the original height (faded brown) and desired height (orange). I've included the numerical change between the original and new height as well.

 

Here are the four desired heights together for comparison. The thief is still shorter than the guards, but not by a ridiculous amount.

 

 

Complete height chart here.

[Domarius]

Perfect. The numerical change is a nice touch.

[Springheel]

Not a priority right now, but for future reference the revenant will have to be shrunk a little bit too--seems reasonable that it should be the same size as the builder guard, but right now they are quite a bit taller.

[Domarius]

See here for update on next due date

http://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?showtopic=4285

 

I made some progress, I'm making a set up so that they can all be the right size according to the chart Spring made. Also I'm trying to streamline the workflow so it's easier to export models. Currently, you have to manually edit the MD5mesh files to point the each material to the correct entries in the mtr file (time consuming...), but I think I can set it up so this happens automatically on export.

[Darkness_Falls]

I like the running and walking anims, but not the leaning. It is too much like T3, imo; and I never liked that. It is not necessary to step-lean when peeking around a corner. If it were a thief in real life, that is just clumsy and exposing more body than one would, so it's not realistic. He also steps forward a little bit and he shouldn't, imo.

 

Can we just take it back to the T1/T2 head-tilt lean style, and just tilt his head to the side? That version is just so clean, precise and tight. Not sloppy like a step-lean is.

 

I understand this has nothing to do with the camera and light gem exposure. Regardless, if we happen to have body shadows turned on, we'd look down and see the thief's leg's shadow casting around the corner. Or we'd look in a mirror and I would shed a tear of pain and sorrow. It really pains me that much to see it so much like T3.

[New Horizon]

I like the running and walking anims, but not the leaning. It is too much like T3, imo; and I never liked that. It is not necessary to step-lean when peeking around a corner. If it were a thief in real life, that is just clumsy and exposing more body than one would, so it's not realistic. He also steps forward a little bit and he shouldn't, imo.

 

Can we just take it back to the T1/T2 head-tilt lean style, and just tilt his head to the side? That version is just so clean, precise and tight. Not sloppy like a step-lean is.

 

I understand this has nothing to do with the camera and light gem exposure. Regardless, if we happen to have body shadows turned on, we'd look down and see the thief's leg's shadow casting around the corner. Or we'd look in a mirror and I would shed a tear of pain and sorrow. It really pains me that much to see it so much like T3.

 

Our model only steps out s tiny bit in order to support his weight. It's really not an issue since it's only there for the shadow anyway. The T1 and 2 lean style was simply the camera moving in the appropriate manner, ours will do the same...what the model does is independent.

[Domarius]

I don't like the leaning anim either - I didn't make it either, it's oDDity's, and when it was released I already expressed my opinion that it looked too cartoony.

 

But it's not a priority to be re-doing it.

[Darkness_Falls]

what the model does is independent.

I know, but what we see the model's shadow doing or what we see in a mirror is T3's lean Thankssss oDDity... At least its something though.

[oDDity]

who's going to be leaning while looking in a mirror anyway.

[sparhawk]

Me.

[New Horizon]

I know, but what we see the model's shadow doing or what we see in a mirror is T3's lean Thankssss oDDity... At least its something though.

 

No, it's far from T3's lean. Garrett steps out much further with the T3 lean. It's not even a lean in T3 at all...it's a complete side step. The anim oDD created has a slight step to support the characters weight while the body is leaning.