In Thrall To Lightslave 8

[Maximius 0]

Ok, Im still bumping along with LW8, so here are some dumbass level questions that I cannot get answers for either in the manual or in the tutorials:

 

Im trying to make a spoon, yes, a goddamned spoon, quit tittering I can hear all of you! When I make the bowl of the spoon, Im supposed to bevel twice, then remove some excess polygons, then weld some points then merge some points to get a nice, rounded spoon. The problem: the image in the tutorial looks nothing like the image in my modeller. When I remove, and weld all points then sub-patch I get a warped looking spoon bowl, not smooth. WHen I remove, weld some points, then try to merge the ones in the middle, i get a message "No points merged" and nothing happens.

 

I finally figured out how to get the goddamned holes out of my goddamned cups, by merging all points. Now I want to put handles on one of my cups to make a chalice. How do I make an exact mirror of the handle for the other side. Do I A. clone the handle I already made then weld/attach it somehow? B. Is there a way to smoothshift two objects in tandem? Or C. is there a way to extrude in tandem?

[oDDity 3]

THere's a difference between weld point s and merge points.

Weld points will connect any two points together no matter where they are, merge points will only connect them if they share the same space, but a dialogue should come up letting you set a tolerance distance for points to be merged. You have to set it to at least how far apart the points you've selected for merging are.

 

For the second question, the easiest way would be to slice the cup in half and mirror it. Always try to keep your meshes symetrical, it means you only have half the work to do.

[Maximius 0]

THere's a difference between weld point s and merge points.

Weld points will connect any two points together no matter where they are, merge points will only connect them if they share the same space, but a dialogue should come up letting you set a tolerance distance for points to be merged. You have to set it to at least how far apart the points you've selected for merging are.

 

For the second question, the easiest way would be to slice the cup in half and mirror it. Always try to keep your meshes symetrical, it means you only have half the work to do.

 

 

Ill do remember that dialogue coming up, Ill mess with it tonight. Same with the cup, thanks again oDD. If that doesnt work Im going to model a pack of razor blades and a basin of warm water...

[SneaksieDave 40]

If that doesnt work Im going to model a pack of razor blades and a basin of warm water...

ROFL, I can empathize with that... I'm just about done with my first "not-super-simplistic"/"bit off more than I intended to chew" modeling project. Maybe.

[Maximius 0]

ROFL, I can empathize with that... I'm just about done with my first "not-super-simplistic"/"bit off more than I intended to chew" modeling project. Maybe.

 

 

This is one of the hardest things I've ever learned to do. Its so non-intuitive and "step-by-step." But it is a beautiful thing when it all comes together. Or so I have heard.

[oDDity 3]

Just goes to how how different we all are. I picked modeling up straight away, even my first models are pretty good.

While mathematics for example, I've never been able to fathom.

Even looking at equations gives me dizzy spells.

[Gildoran 0]

I'm the opposite... I'm a math major but I have a complete phobia of modeling. All the modeling software I've ever seen was overly complicated, and the tutorials had all sorts of useless fluff that I didn't care about, like rendering, and didn't seem to cover the stuff I actually needed to know. Being able to make the shapes you want is completely useless if you can't export them. I wish there was a tutorial on how to create and texture a cube, then get it into the game.

[OrbWeaver 663]

I guess I'm somewhere in the middle -- "competent" at both modelling and the mathematical theory behind it, but not spectacular at either.

 

Modelling is an interesting skill area actually because it is a lot more technical than most other fields of art, but still requires a lot of creativity. I suppose photography falls into this category as well, with its exposure calculations and lighting and everything.

[bob_arctor 0]

I used that really simple modelling/ anim program (might have been Blender) to make a little man made of prims who ran, exported the anim as a gif, and used it in Game Maker.

 

That was ok. Proper modelling would probably make my brain fry.

 

Mind you I was rubbish at Game Maker. I got by, very workmanlike, the solutions I came up with were really really inelegant and long winded. I just don't have that natural skill.

 

I like mapping though. That's really easy in comparison.

[Crispy 8]

I'm half-decent at modelling (I'm taking a 3D animation elective at uni, actually, though it's geared towards film animation rather than games), but my inexperience at level design shows.

 

I'm pretty good at maths by most people's standards, but I really hate the class. I have to take the most advanced maths stream at uni in order to pass my degree... sucks. The maths behind 3D stuff isn't as difficult as the stuff we're studying there, but I haven't really studied it properly. Messed around with transformations and such a couple of times, but that's all.

[Maximius 0]

Just goes to how how different we all are. I picked modeling up straight away, even my first models are pretty good.

While mathematics for example, I've never been able to fathom.

Even looking at equations gives me dizzy spells.

 

I hear what you are saying, an equation with more than one variable looks to me like a gigantic hairy spider on the page. But I have to say, I can feel myself growing more comfortable with LW, not just the buttons and such but in trying to understand whats actually going on with the object and the polys and all. Im "thinking in 3d" better I think, being able to predict what pulling on one corner is going to do to the rest of the object. This sort of thing can only come with time and practice, at least for me.

 

I do have to say as a teacher, the majority of tutorials out there are crappy. I appreciate the work folks have done but they would really benefit from some lessons in instruction. How many tutorials have I seen where the person says "Ok, do this." and then does a +few+ things to complete the goal. Right there, you have lost a newbie. Not only do they not know what exactly you just did, but the frustration level skyrockets.

 

Example from RL: Im teaching my students to divide with decimals. Now, when I am adding my columns, I always put all of my zeros in the tens, hundreds, thousands place underneath to help keep my columns nice and straight.

 

 

This blew my students away, because the teacher they had before had not put the zeros in place, he just kept them in his head and finished the problem. Had I been watching him, there would have been no problem as I knew what he was up to, but to my students watching me do it differently, it was as if I was re-inventing the wheel. For new learners, detailed consistency and careful repetition OF THE MINUTEST POINTS is crucial to learning. These are absent in many of the tutorials.

[Maximius 0]

I'm the opposite... I'm a math major but I have a complete phobia of modeling. All the modeling software I've ever seen was overly complicated, and the tutorials had all sorts of useless fluff that I didn't care about, like rendering, and didn't seem to cover the stuff I actually needed to know. Being able to make the shapes you want is completely useless if you can't export them. I wish there was a tutorial on how to create and texture a cube, then get it into the game.

 

 

Yes gildoran, thats exactly the tutorial I need. Just the straightest path to making, texturing and then rendering a simple object. Then the bells and whistles can follow, skelegons and what the heck.

[SneaksieDave 40]

Well it depends on what you're using, of course, but what exactly is the problem area? Just overall/in general? For instance, since I just did this last night as quickly as I could for a monster_clip hull test, here's what I did with Blender (roughly).

 

1. Open Blender, create your object. Or, leave it a cube. Doesn't matter for this example.

2. Create a material for it. I just think of this as a "material insertion point", really, because I don't use Blender to do the texturing. I make the textures in PS and check/test them out in D3. Anyway, F5 to choose or create my material, and then F6 to define the texture for this material; choose Image type, and load an image. Now when I export, the model will have a material defined (even though I'm going to change it by hand).

3. Make a UV map. I recommend searching for greybeard's UV tutorial; it's not the big scary thing it seems to be. For this simple test, just make a single seam and unwrap it. Who cares what it looks like.

4. Export the model with the ASE export script.

5. Open the ASE in a file editor, and change the *BITMAP line to a format that D3 will use. E.g., from

"D:\programs\blender\.blender\textures\whatever.tga"

to

"//base/some_d3_material"

6. Open it in Doom.

 

Of course it gets way more complex than that, but that's the basics.

[demagogue 1276]

Sounds like some left brain vs right brain squaring off in this thread.

I think I'm somewhere in the middle as well, or so they tell me.

[Darkness_Falls 73]

When I remove, and weld all points then sub-patch I get a warped looking spoon bowl, not smooth.

Awesome. I say keep it. Sounds like a pagan-like spoon to me!

 

LW is one of the hardest programs I've ever tried learning. It's not the actual modeling and creative parts that are hard, it's learning what all the buttons/shortcuts/menus do and where they're located that's tough for me. Once I got over that hurdle, it's a lot easier. There's many more things I need to learn with LW, but at least I can more easily make some of my ideas come to life. (Flash is similarly non-intuitive with regards to learning where stuff is and what stuff does.)

 

How many tutorials have I seen where the person says "Ok, do this." and then does a +few+ things to complete the goal.

I'm the same way. When it comes to learning new things, I need to see it sequentially without any steps missed. That's why when I try to teach things to others, I always try to meticulously list every step, no matter how big or small.

[Maximius 0]

Hi guys, I was gone all weekend with my brother, didnt get a chance to try out any of your suggestions. I'll try to get some time in tonight and let you know the results.

[Maximius 0]

Awesome. I say keep it. Sounds like a pagan-like spoon to me!

 

LW is one of the hardest programs I've ever tried learning. It's not the actual modeling and creative parts that are hard, it's learning what all the buttons/shortcuts/menus do and where they're located that's tough for me. Once I got over that hurdle, it's a lot easier. There's many more things I need to learn with LW, but at least I can more easily make some of my ideas come to life. (Flash is similarly non-intuitive with regards to learning where stuff is and what stuff does.)

 

 

I'm the same way. When it comes to learning new things, I need to see it sequentially without any steps missed. That's why when I try to teach things to others, I always try to meticulously list every step, no matter how big or small.

 

 

I get that same feeling, if I could only get over this "hump" of not knowing the keys and shortcuts do. Like I said above, Im feeling a lot more comfortable with it but its so fucking frustrating when one little thing you have no idea about is throwing you off. But I shall perservere!

[sparhawk 17]

The easiest way to memorize the shortcuts is to always use them. Even when it is more convenient and faster to use the menus. In the long run you will become much faster.

[Maximius 0]

The easiest way to memorize the shortcuts is to always use them. Even when it is more convenient and faster to use the menus. In the long run you will become much faster.

 

 

Yes, Im seeing that now a bit, I can see how one could get really fast with a bit of time. Im already using a few by habit but Ill push myself to use them more.

 

 

I made some progress with the spoon tonight, the bowl is not perfect but much better and at least symmetrical. The problem now is that I have extended the handle out but when I go to hit Tab I get a message about 3 and 4 point polys and then the handle is broken in discrete chunks.

Edited September 12, 2006 by Maximius

[Maximius 0]

I got it! I got rid of the > 3/4 vertices polys and the whole thing looks smooth and balanced! It still needs some tweaking and texturing is not done, but the important thing is I figured it out and my ideas worked like I thought they would! I am actually feeling, dare I say, a little more comfortable with Lightwave.

 

 

Now Im going to try and make a matching fork and knife. I figure its a good idea to build complete sets at the same time, by using the same handles and attaching different tips, either fork or knife. I'll post some pics later if anyone wants to look over them and offer advice.