Darkradiant Newbie Questions

[PinkDot]

I'm going to learn this editor eventually - it's a shame that I can't build anything more complicated than cubic room and some light inside....

 

I've just installed Dark Radiant. My first question is - why my Build menu is empty? The only command I have there is Customize.... I'm not sure but there should be some bsp commands, shouldn't they? Where can I find them now?

 

And BTW - object viewer works only in Preview mode - not Render mode, so I can't really see how the models with collision meshes look like... Is that intentional? Or can I change it somewhere?

 

Next questions coming soon...

[OrbWeaver]

I've just installed Dark Radiant. My first question is - why my Build menu is empty? The only command I have there is Customize.... I'm not sure but there should be some bsp commands, shouldn't they? Where can I find them now?

 

The Build menu is empty (and removed in the next version) because the map compilation code is locked up inside Doom 3. This is unfortunate, but we cannot do anything about it until Doom 3 goes open-source.

 

You can still compile your maps by running the Doom 3 executable and typing "testmap <mymapname>" rather than "map <mymapname>" to play your map.

 

And BTW - object viewer works only in Preview mode - not Render mode, so I can't really see how the models with collision meshes look like... Is that intentional? Or can I change it somewhere?

 

In the next version the Model Preview is integrated with the new filter system, which allows you to turn off collision textures (or anything else you want to filter out).

[PinkDot]

Thanks!

 

So Doom3 has to be running simultaneously with Dark Radiant, and if I want to check my work, I just save the map, and switch to Doom3, am I right?

[sparhawk]

Right!

[OrbWeaver]

So Doom3 has to be running simultaneously with Dark Radiant, and if I want to check my work, I just save the map, and switch to Doom3, am I right?

 

You don't have to run Doom 3 simultaneously, but yes, the general procedure is similar to that used with DoomEdit except that the background Doom 3 is now a separate program rather than a window of the same application.

[PinkDot]

Where can I find those selecting tools which are located on the icon bar in DoomEdit? Actually not only they are missing compared to Doomedit icon bar (Regions also and several more) - is it going to change or not?

But those multiple selecting tools are very useful and I can't get access to them via any menu option...

 

BTW - why does in model preview window camera is over the model by default instead of being in front of? This way I have to turn every model to see what it looks like...

 

Also - I've noticed that scaling doesn't work. Wheter I use scale tool or arbitrary scaling the brush disappears...

[OrbWeaver]

Where can I find those selecting tools which are located on the icon bar in DoomEdit? Actually not only they are missing compared to Doomedit icon bar (Regions also and several more) - is it going to change or not? But those multiple selecting tools are very useful and I can't get access to them via any menu option...

 

Select Partial Tall is accomplished by shift-dragging the left mouse button. Select Inside and Select Touching are on the Edit menu (I think), although it might be better to have some buttons for these.

 

BTW - why does in model preview window camera is over the model by default instead of being in front of? This way I have to turn every model to see what it looks like...

 

It's just the default alignment for OpenGL, if this is a problem it shouldn't be difficult to change.

 

Also - I've noticed that scaling doesn't work. Wheter I use scale tool or arbitrary scaling the brush disappears...

 

No, the scale tools are useless and should be removed. You can scale brushes and patches in the normal way by dragging outside their bounding boxes.

[PinkDot]

Select Partial Tall is accomplished by shift-dragging the left mouse button.

Thanks! That's even better this way.

 

Select Inside and Select Touching are on the Edit menu (I think), although it might be better to have some buttons for these.

I couldn't find them anywhere. Yes, it definitely would be better to have buttons for them.

 

No, the scale tools are useless and should be removed. You can scale brushes and patches in the normal way by dragging outside their bounding boxes.

In most cases that's true but you can't scale prism and cones in any way... And converting brushes to cones gives them unpredictable size... Not to mention the case when you decide to scale some prism or cone brush after a while. So that's why I find scale tool necessary.

 

It's just the default alignment for OpenGL, if this is a problem it shouldn't be difficult to change.

Not a priority, but if it's easy to do then why not to do it while polishing the editor for first release...?

 

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Another 2 questions:

1) is there any method of grouping brushes and/or entities? And operating on them together (like resizing etc...)?

2) on some video tutorial I heard about Shift+MMB shortcut for pasting copied texture without changing the texture alingment (unlike CTRL+Shift+MMB does). Is there any similiar function for that in Dark Radiant?

[greebo]

1) is there any method of grouping brushes and/or entities? And operating on them together (like resizing etc...)?

Not that I know of, sorry.

2) on some video tutorial I heard about Shift+MMB shortcut for pasting copied texture without changing the texture alingment (unlike CTRL+Shift+MMB does). Is there any similiar function for that in Dark Radiant?

Can't say exactly how Shift-MMB works in DoomEdit, but I introduced some new texturing methods recently. The next release is including these, so stay tuned. (This is the thread about this topic.)

[PinkDot]

Can't say exactly how Shift-MMB works in DoomEdit, but I introduced some new texturing methods recently. The next release is including these, so stay tuned. (This is the thread about this topic.)

Thanks! Looking good! I haven't tried working with patches yet but I certainly will use it!

 

Not that I know of, sorry.

So, maybe it is on your TO DO list? I'm not experienced with Radiant but I can't imagine working without groups in any programs, so I suppose it would help a lot in DR as well.

[OrbWeaver]

So, maybe it is on your TO DO list? I'm not experienced with Radiant but I can't imagine working without groups in any programs, so I suppose it would help a lot in DR as well.

 

I plan to add some form of grouping/parenting after 1.0.

[PinkDot]

I plan to add some form of grouping/parenting after 1.0.

Very good news

 

...1.0 means after mod is released? or is it going to be sooner?

 

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And returning to my previous question about scaling - is there currently any way to scale such shapes like prisms or cones? (especially cones, cause it's hard to guess what size they'll be after creating)

[New Horizon]

Very good news

 

...1.0 means after mod is released? or is it going to be sooner?

 

-----------------------

And returning to my previous question about scaling - is there currently any way to scale such shapes like prisms or cones? (especially cones, cause it's hard to guess what size they'll be after creating)

 

Our next revision will be 0.8, so I'm pretty sure we'll see 1.0 before the release of the mod itself. My understanding is that 1.0 will be the first version to have a good majority of the features required to build a full mission.

[OrbWeaver]

Very good news

...1.0 means after mod is released? or is it going to be sooner?

 

Much sooner. 1.0 is the point at which DarkRadiant is considered "sufficient", although there is still plenty more to do after this.

 

-----------------------And returning to my previous question about scaling - is there currently any way to scale such shapes like prisms or cones? (especially cones, cause it's hard to guess what size they'll be after creating)

 

Possibly not, this will require investigation. These other shapes should ideally be drag resizable like any other brush.

[PinkDot]

Much sooner. 1.0 is the point at which DarkRadiant is considered "sufficient", although there is still plenty more to do after this.

That's even better news...

 

These other shapes should ideally be drag resizable like any other brush.

dragging works fine only with boxes - other shapes are just deformed cause you can drag up to few faces at once which is not what scaling would do.

What a pity that I'm the only one who feels a lack of this, basic in my humble opinion, function...

 

Anyway - it's a good job you're doing with DR and I understand that there are more important tasks to do.

[OrbWeaver]

dragging works fine only with boxes - other shapes are just deformed cause you can drag up to few faces at once which is not what scaling would do.

What a pity that I'm the only one who feels a lack of this, basic in my humble opinion, function...

 

Dragging the bounding box should scale in 1 or 2 dimensions at once, not just move individual faces. If this isn't the behaviour you get, then I am in agreement that there is a deficiency here.

[PinkDot]

That's what I get:

 

[OrbWeaver]

That definitely seems wrong to me -- do you get the same behaviour in DoomEdit?

[PinkDot]

do you get the same behaviour in DoomEdit?

Yes, something like that. The only diffrence I've noticed so far is in DoomEdit you can drag only one face at the same time. Dark Radiant is more flexible (you can drag two or more faces depending on the place you start dragging).

 

That definitely seems wrong to me

Does it works in diffrent way in your Radiant?

 

Well, even if it's wrong I'd like to keep that cause it's easy way to get some more complex shapes. The best way would be to drag all faces at once, as an alternative option.

[OrbWeaver]

Yes, something like that. The only diffrence I've noticed so far is in DoomEdit you can drag only one face at the same time. Dark Radiant is more flexible (you can drag two or more faces depending on the place you start dragging).

Does it works in diffrent way in your Radiant?

Well, even if it's wrong I'd like to keep that cause it's easy way to get some more complex shapes. The best way would be to drag all faces at once, as an alternative option.

 

I am confused -- do you want dragging to scale the cone, or to drag the individual faces? I would have thought that scaling is the more obvious behaviour, but it may be difficult to implement since brushes are defined by mathematical planes, rather than vertices. Face dragging would be better accomplished in the vertex editing mode IMO, although it is not really recommended due to the increased chance of floating point errors leading to missing geometry.

[PinkDot]

Maybe I misused some words, but all I'd like to see in Dark Radiant is possiblity of scaling cones/prisms proportionally. At this moment I can move only few faces at once, which works fine only for cubes but deforms more complex shapes.

 

As a compromise - it could snap vertices to grid to avoid floating point errors.

 

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I'm just wondering - maybe there is already some hidden key+mouse combination for resizing cones proportionally, cause I just discovered diffrent behaviour with CTRL key pressed down. . . .

[greebo]

I could think of a solution for this, which requires calculating the winding vertices of the brush and the proportional scaling applied to them instead to the face planes. During the drag operation the computed vertices can be used to calculate the actual face planes of the brush. The only difficulty would be to determine the direction of the scaling and its pivot point (don't know if that's the correct term), which may be ambiguous in some situation, but it should work.

[PinkDot]

I could think of a solution for this, which requires calculating the winding vertices of the brush and the proportional scaling applied to them instead to the face planes. During the drag operation the computed vertices can be used to calculate the actual face planes of the brush.

Sounds good! Thanks!

 

The only difficulty would be to determine the direction of the scaling and its pivot point (don't know if that's the correct term), which may be ambiguous in some situation, but it should work.

I would suggest placing pivot point in the opposite corner (or centre of edge) to the one you start dragging. And if you start in the middle of brush then the centre would be the pivot point.

I'm not sure about the third dimension - usually in 3D applications you can have 2D and 3D scaling as separate tools (or tool variations).

[greebo]

Sounds good! Thanks!

Don't hold your breath on this, I haven't even started! Some time may pass till I can look into this and maybe this turns out to be harder than I estimate it to be. If Orbweaver agrees on such a feature to be important we can put it on the DarkRadiant ToDo-List, don't know if it will make it into a pre-1.0 version though.

[PinkDot]

That's OK. I wouldn't really expect it in 1.0 release... I know that your current tasks are time consuming enough...