DDS Texture discussion

[greebo]

How much smaller are they? How much difference is the whole mod right now with DDS versus TGAs?

The net saving is about ~220 MB. This already includes the normalmaps we already converted back to TGA.

[Springheel]

and other stage modifications deliberately do not use the DDS source image

 

What other stage modifications do you think might not work?

[OrbWeaver]

What other stage modifications do you think might not work?

 

I have done no testing, but I would imagine anything that modifies the original image might use the TGA rather than the DDS. E.g.

 

{
blend diffusemap
map blah/something/bleh

rgb 0.5 // MODIFY IMAGE
}

 

Because the image is modified, it would have to be uncompressed and then recompressed to DXT, reducing the quality. Doom 3 might be designed to use TGA in this case.

[greebo]

This one below works fine (from wood/boards/polished_01_dim), my guess is that it only affects the MapExpressions.

{
blend diffusemap
map		 textures/darkmod/wood/boards/polished_01
red		 0.69	// 175/255
green	   0.79	// 201/255
blue		0.93	// 237/255
}

[Springheel]

Ok, so now I'd like to use one of the wood textures that is currently a .dds file in an addnormals material.

 

So what do I do? Copy the file back from the hires repository and move it back to the regular texture folders? Then do I delete the .dds version or leave two versions?

 

No one else but greebo and I has spoken up on this issue. Does anyone have any reasons why we should not return ALL the normalmaps to .tga format?

[Komag]

what about video card memory, would compressed textures allow for more of them being shown at once, or run faster? That's a pretty good reason

[Baddcog]

I think if they need to be TGA to work they should be tga. Converting one at the time it is needed is a pain (OK, not that hard) but it won't look as good from dds to tga will it?

 

Also, it would suck for modders if they had to figure this out anytime they wanna make a new material.

 

I haven't read all the threads but other than file size there seems to be no reason not to have the normals be tga.

[greebo]

Well then, seems like the DDS normalmaps shall be reverted... I'll start as soon as I get the OK from the leads.

[sparhawk]

HMPF

[OrbWeaver]

No one else but greebo and I has spoken up on this issue. Does anyone have any reasons why we should not return ALL the normalmaps to .tga format?

 

I would vote for this as well; the decision to use DDS normal maps was made in good faith, but ultimately it seems to cause no end of problems.

 

Let's hope nobody needs to use map expressions for diffuse or specular maps...

 

what about video card memory, would compressed textures allow for more of them being shown at once, or run faster? That's a pretty good reason

 

Using TGAs on disk makes no difference to the actual graphics card's use of texture compression, they will just be compressed by the game itself rather than loading them directly from the dds/ folder. The advantage of using precompressed DDS is the reduction in disk space and loading time.

[Springheel]

Well then, seems like the DDS normalmaps shall be reverted... I'll start as soon as I get the OK from the leads.

 

Thanks Greebo. Sorry for the extra work.

[SneaksieDave]

This puts us back to the original file distribution (in the old unfinished reorg - diffuse as DDS, normals as TGA). So to offset this unfortunate bloat, perhaps that's all the more reason to look into DDS-ifying the diffuses for all models (eventually). That at least can probably be done with a batch script.

[Springheel]

This puts us back to the original file distribution

 

Very few of the files were .dds before we did the reorg--10% at best. So we have still saved a lot of space.

 

We can always make the model diffuse textures .dds sometime before release. I just don't want to do it now.

[SneaksieDave]

Very few of the files were .dds before we did the reorg--10% at best. So we have still saved a lot of space.

Of course, that's why I said unfinished. All the old stuff needed to be brought up to date still.

We can always make the model diffuse textures .dds sometime before release. I just don't want to do it now.

I was just thinking (beyond the HD space) about the fact that, with the coming model texture reorg, it's no doubt better to shuffle around X amount of DDS file size, than 4X amount of TGA size... but either way.