Lightgem Again

[sparhawk]

Since Oddity said he currently want to make some static mesh models instead of characters it would be great if he could create the lightgem. The version that we have can not be used.

 

What I need is the following: It is acutally two models. One should be the gem and the other the compass surrounding it. The gem must be created in such a way that it has 16 textures associated with it, showing all states between dark (not black but very dark so that it still can be seen) and the brightest level. Since this will be pre-rendered it doesn't matter how complicated the model is or the material to create the lighteffect on it. It will just be displayed as an image.

The compass model should be rendered in such a way that it seems to fit the gem or surround it. When both are properly placed on screen they should look as if they are one model. Even though the compass may never be seen from bottom, it still must be a solid object as D3 can NOT render doublesided polygons.

 

I guess this will be only an hour of work at most for Oddity, so I hope that I have a nice gem soon. My own version is rather crap to look at. Yeah I know for testing it doesn't really matter, but it is still more fun to have nice graphics.

[Springheel]

Well, let's make sure we don't reinvent the wheel. Can't the lightgem we have just be added to so it works?

[sparhawk]

Well, let's make sure we don't reinvent the wheel. Can't the lightgem we have just be added to so it works?

Yeah. But still somebody must do this. Maybe it is just the importer for Blender or it happened because of the triangulation and/or poly reduction. The model that I looked at is complete crap for in-game purposes. So it would have to be redone. I only looked at the lowest poly version and this has vertices all over the place. And it has some flaws which oofnish probably didn't knew about when he did it, but which can't be used. Like this single-poly circle aorund the gem.

And of course we didn't really knew the constraints for the gem itself. Now we know. So I don't know if we can use this gem as it is.

 

I really like the look of the gem, so it should probably be used as a template.

[oDDity]

Is there any concept art for this lightgem?

[Springheel]

The model is shown in this thread a few times:

 

http://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?showtopic=292

 

The actual model itself should be on the ftp site.

[oDDity]

Ok, so basically copy the one Oonfish modeled?

It'll take 20 minutes to model, but getting all the 16 textures sorted out will probably take quite a while

[sparhawk]

Ok, so basically copy the one Oonfish modeled?

It'll take 20 minutes to model, but getting all the 16 textures sorted out will probably take quite a while

I did my textures manually in about one hour. It only took s o long because I didn't know how to do it better. Now I learned to animate and it should take less then 10 minutes to do this.

 

Should be pretty simple. Just model the gem and then make a render in 16 steps with animating the material brightness for the gem. I guess that LW can do this and copy each render to a seperate image.

 

Blender can do this as well, and I think this is pretty basic functionality for most 3D animation packages.

The gem should be rendered against a black background with Alpha included so that the background will be removed when imported in-game.

[oDDity]

Something like this?

(wait for it, it's quite a big gif)

Also, I was thinking I'd need to indicate in some way which one of the spikes points north.

Edited December 5, 2004 by oDDity

[Springheel]

In terms of the textures, that's perfect. And Sparhawk will be able to use this for his tests no problem. In the actual game though, we want to use the lightgem oofnish did (or a replica, if his model is no good).

 

 

 

 

The second one has the north spike as a slightly different colour, so we can tell them apart.

 

edit: Maybe I misunderstood the post above...is that just a gif example, or did you make a model like that?

[oDDity]

Ahh right, I was copying that pendant you showed. I'll make the compass more like the Oonfish model. In fact I'll download the model and tweak it instead.

[BlackThief]

well oDDity's version also looks quite cool. maybe he can make a mix of them. for example more sharp pointers on oddity's gem and a more oval shape in general.

[oDDity]

No that's the actual model, though I haven't uv mapped it yet.

Do we see the actual model on the screen, or a series of bitmaps of it? Will we only see the actual gem from one angle, and if so wich angle (top or perspective like I show it there)

[Springheel]

We will only see the model at one angle...the second of the two pictures I posted above. That's pretty much how we want it to look in-game. As for whether that's done with a model or bitmaps, I'm pretty sure the compass-ring has to be a model for it to move around, but I'm not sure what the plan is for the gem. That's Sparhawk's domain.

 

[oDDity]

So the compass takes it's lighting from the environment like other objrects in the map, and will need to be low res with normal, and spec maps?

[Springheel]

No, no part of the lightgem is affected by in-game lighting...it's part of the HUD only. If you want to make it affected by the gem's light, like in your example, that's cool.

 

 

 

[oDDity]

I'm still not sure how it works

Where does it's lighting come from then? Or does it not have any real time lighting on it. It looks much cooler ith lighting as it turns. WOuldn't it be as easy just to use a series of bitmaps for the whole thing >

Edited December 5, 2004 by oDDity

[Springheel]

Where does it's lighting come from then?

 

It has to be lit from a non-game source, otherwise you wouldn't be able to read it in the dark. I'm not exactly sure how this is done. Perhaps it will be lit with a fullbright shader or something. I don't know. How are the little inventory items and healthbars going to be lit?

 

 

 

WOuldn't it be as easy just to use a series of bitmaps for the whole thing >

 

I don't quite know what you mean. Do you mean for the turning of the compass? I suppose it could be done that way, as long as it isn't too jerky. You'll have to talk to Sparhawk about how that would work best. It depends on how he plans to code it.

[sparhawk]

As for whether that's done with a model or bitmaps, I'm pretty sure the compass-ring has to be a model for it to move around, but I'm not sure what the plan is for the gem. That's Sparhawk's domain.

 

As I said. The gem needs to be normal textures. Not normal textures as in normal substituting for geometry details, but normal as in just like any other image.

 

That's why I said it should actually be two different models. One that will yield the gem textures when rendered in 16 steps and the other is the compass model that will turn and tilt around with the player.

[sparhawk]

So the compass takes it's lighting from the environment like other objrects in the map, and will need to be low res with normal, and spec maps?

The compass will take it's lighting from a pre-defined light source. But it is still rendered. It is not the game rendering though. It is if it were in a second game.

 

You can specify the lightsource which is to be used for a HUD element on it's own. Each HUD element has it's own lightsource which is totaly independent of the game lighting.

[sparhawk]

I don't quite know what you mean. Do you mean for the turning of the compass? I suppose it could be done that way, as long as it isn't too jerky. You'll have to talk to Sparhawk about how that would work best. It depends on how he plans to code it.

No. That's crap. The compass itself will be a real 3D model which will turn around with the player moves just like any other 3D model. It would be to much effort to make the compass images. 180 images (if you take only every second step) and that again for each step of the tilting.

[Springheel]

and that again for each step of the tilting.

 

There isn't going to BE any tilting, remember? If it tilts, then you will have angles from which you can't see the gem, or angles where you can't see the spokes. The gem should stay at the same level at all times. But I think a model would be easier than 2d images for that part.

[sparhawk]

There isn't going to BE any tilting, remember? If it tilts, then you will have angles from which you can't see the gem, or angles where you can't see the spokes. The gem should stay at the same level at all times. But I think a model would be easier than 2d images for that part.

When the player looks up the compass should rotate on this axis also. That's the only chance for the player to actually KNOW that he is looking upward. This might sound funny, but when you are in caves then you can easily loose the sense of direction and the compass should provide this. To make sure that the gem can be seen at all times, it has to be tweaked in such a way that with the most probable angle the gem is still seen. That is no real problem though.

 

I'm not sure about tilting, though. I think it is called yawn. What I mean is that the comapss will not only rotate left/right, but also up/down.

[New Horizon]

In T1, 2 and 3 the compass was a 3d model that rotated. The light gem was a model in all three games as well. I've played around with the old gem in T1 and 2. The metal housing around the gem could be skinned separately from the light gem itself. The compass simply rotates around it as stated earlier, but is not affected by looking up or down..otherwise it would obstruct the view of the gem since it is now part of the compass.

 

oDDity, the little demo above looks great by the way.

[sparhawk]

I'm still not sure how it works

Where does it's lighting come from then? Or does it not have any real time lighting on it. It looks much cooler ith lighting as it turns. WOuldn't it be as easy just to use a series of bitmaps for the whole thing >

Is this already uploaded?

[sparhawk]

The compass simply rotates around it as stated earlier, but is not affected by looking up or down..otherwise it would obstruct the view of the gem since it is now part of the compass.

I will see how much this really affects the gem when it is implemented.