March 25th Update

[SneaksieDave 40]

I for one remember conversations about the plain 'ghost' spiders often being the creepiest (in Thief, in life), and the belcher has been received internally with high praise. So, we sure seem to like 'em. Sorry that some of you don't, but there's not a whole lot we can do about it except wait until you deliver better for the project.

 

Edit: new page, for emphasis!

[Nyarlathotep 0]

"Ghost spiders" are white/albino/ivory, not textureless grey, but I'm nitpicking.

[SneaksieDave 40]

There not textureless. LOOK CLOSER. If they were only a normalmap, trust me, they'd look quite different.

 

And yes, you are.

[Komag 20]

It's not a new page for me - we all have different settings I suppose.

 

I also don't really like the grey spider, but it doesn't matter since it's just one of many selections to use when mapping. I'm sure authors will also make their own skins for things and we'll eventually have dozens of different looking spiders.

[Macsen 5]

Since I'm already picking nits, I think a kind of pale, see-through green would look better. Can you make the spider slightly transparent? At the moment it looks like it knocked over a jar of talcum powder.

 

Also I see too much intelligence in those Burricks' eyes. They need large, dull eyes, not sharp, scheming, take-over-the-world, eyes. They look sharp, quick and intelligent, while the Burricks I love are clunky, stupid and flatulent. And big, dumb foreheads, bulky bodies, and drooling mouths. They should look more like this!

[SneaksieDave 40]

To clarify, no one likes everything, and no one expects that, realistically. It's just a kick in the nuts to see when the team works so hard to produce new stuff to spread some smiles and excite people, only to have people tear it down on silly premises.

 

From the outside, I know most are not aware of the magic the team is pulling off privately, behind the scenes, but when you actually see that magic, it seems all the more insane to complain that the hue of a texture is off, or a hand sculpted model doesn't tickle one's fancy.

 

Just my personal input. I didn't make the model or the textures, but I think they're fine work.

[Springheel 4630]

They look sharp, quick and intelligent, while the Burricks I love are clunky, stupid and flatulent.

 

They're not Burricks.

[sparhawk 17]

If anybody doesn't lioke something that we create, he/she is always welcome to lend a hand and make it better. This is a community effort after all, and not a free-to-choose commercial project.

[Macsen 5]

They're not Burricks.

I know, they're not Burricks and this mod has no relation to another computer game which also involves thieves, holy water potions, hammer obsessed religious cults and large, gas-breathing, bipedal lizards. But I sure do like Burricks, whatever they're called.

 

But again I don't think these small details detract at all from the monumental effort you're putting in and the majority of high quality work that is coming out of this project. The items look amazing for the most part, I love the spyglass, the inventor is awesome, and the texture quality of 4/5 of those spiders is top notch.

[ascottk 0]

If anybody doesn't lioke something that we create, he/she is always welcome to lend a hand and make it better. This is a community effort after all, and not a free-to-choose commercial project.

I just put up a wiki document for advanced Maya character rigging if anyone's interested (hint hint, need more riggers . . . )

http://www.thirdfilms.com/darkwiki/index.p...aracter_rigging

[Ombrenuit 1]

What I mean by a different art style is a nice way of me saying that they are much more simplistic models then Oddity's. For god's sake, their eyes are dark holes with a white dot in them!

 

I'm sorry, that's harsh. But its honest. Don't even try to tell me they are up to the same quality as the rest of the models. They look like dinosaurs that belong in a 1996 Discovery Channel documentary. They look cartoony (and simplified), not up to the "realism" style that the mod has shown thus far. Thus they look out of place.

Edited March 28, 2007 by Ombrenuit

[Mr Mike 11]

I just put up a wiki document for advanced Maya character rigging if anyone's interested (hint hint, need more riggers . . . )

http://www.thirdfilms.com/darkwiki/index.p...aracter_rigging

 

Ascott. I see this requirement time and time again. How in depth is the process and what programs are necessary? I've had a passing interest in animation with macromedia Director and Flash so if this can be done ith say Blender, then I'm willing to read up and maybe try and at least try the more mundane animations required. Any recommended reading?

[ascottk 0]

What I mean by a different art style is a nice way of me saying that they are much more simplistic models then Oddity's. For god's sake, their eyes are dark holes with a white dot in them!

 

I'm sorry, that's harsh. But its honest. Don't even try to tell me they are up to the same quality as the rest of the models. They look like dinosaurs that belong in a 1996 Discovery Channel documentary. They look cartoony (and simplified), not up to the "realism" style that the mod has shown thus far. Thus they look out of place.

Those are not the eyes I put on them & if you ever got a hand on any low poly model you'll realize that all of them are simplistic. They need to be if you want a real time model with good performance. oDDity's models are bits & pieces that are combined to make a whole and that's part of the reason why they look good. There was no way to do that with the belcher.

 

Here's an environment shot I did of the belcher (click for a hi-res shot):

Granted I did some gimp work to blur out the distracting details of the background leaves & the eyes have a little too much specular.

 

& honestly I do not like the screenshot of the belchers on the website because it seems too simplified. I'll probably do another environment shot that'll put the belchers in a better light.

 

Ascott. I see this requirement time and time again. How in depth is the process and what programs are necessary? I've had a passing interest in animation with macromedia Director and Flash so if this can be done ith say Blender, then I'm willing to read up and maybe try and at least try the more mundane animations required. Any recommended reading?

We use Maya to rig the characters but there's exporters for Blender & 3ds Max.

 

Here's a list of importers/exporters on Doom3World forums:

http://www.doom3world.org/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=5474

 

& a list of tutorials:

http://www.doom3world.org/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=11896

[Springheel 4630]

What I mean by a different art style is a nice way of me saying that they are much more simplistic models then Oddity's.

 

Of course they're more simplistic. They're a simplistic creature without any clothing, buckles, or other features. A chair or a bucket is also a more simplistic model than a human. That said, if you know where we can get someone else who can model as well as Oddity, let us know.

 

For god's sake, their eyes are dark holes with a white dot in them!

 

I guess screenshots have their limitations then, because that's not what they look like up close.

[New Horizon 507]

For god's sake, their eyes are dark holes with a white dot in them!

 

Nope, they're not. That's just a result of too much specular on the eyes in that shot. They look very nice ingame. The still shot doesn't do them justice.

[Nyarlathotep 0]

Since I'm already picking nits, I think a kind of pale, see-through green would look better. Can you make the spider slightly transparent? At the moment it looks like it knocked over a jar of talcum powder.

Yes! Pale green is good! The grey is definitely aching my eyes.

 

Also I see too much intelligence in those Burricks' eyes. They need large, dull eyes, not sharp, scheming, take-over-the-world, eyes. They look sharp, quick and intelligent, while the Burricks I love are clunky, stupid and flatulent. And big, dumb foreheads, bulky bodies, and drooling mouths. They should look more like this!

The green and amber reptilian eyes look more "realistic", but I have to agree about the black eyes looking better.

 

If anybody doesn't lioke something that we create, he/she is always welcome to lend a hand and make it better.

That's what I'm doing.

 

Granted I did some gimp work to blur out the distracting details of the background leaves & the eyes have a little too much specular.

A little? Try a lot, mate. The eyes are practically white as it is. I seem to recall that Doom 3 is horrible at making high-gloss specular highlights (read: small, bright highlights), so I doubt there's a whole lot you can do without making an entirely new shader.

 

We use Maya to rig the characters but there's exporters for Blender & 3ds Max.

I'd love to try my hand at rigging models, but I know better than to offer my help. I'm going to be to busy getting used to C++ and D3/TDM SDKs to be of any help, not to mention I don't trust my artistic skills (I have them; they're just not consistent).

[Ishtvan 17]

According to Melville / Moby Dick, white animals are the most scary.

[Crispy 8]

I'm sorry, that's harsh. But its honest. Don't even try to tell me they are up to the same quality as the rest of the models. They look like dinosaurs that belong in a 1996 Discovery Channel documentary. They look cartoony (and simplified), not up to the "realism" style that the mod has shown thus far. Thus they look out of place.

I like them.

[MadhatteR 0]

I like them.

 

So do i, i dont really care much for whether they look out of place, they are opponents and they look good to me and they'll probably give a good scare when i cross them.

[woah 71]

They look fine to me, and with good animations and sounds I could see them fitting very well.

[Maximius 0]

In the screen shot of the Thiefs equiptment, are those pebbles in the upper left hand corner? If so, are these, ala FarCry, used to attract/distract AIs?

 

PS I too like the Belchers look, although I see some of what Ombrenuit is saying I like the image of a rather primitive looking cave dwelling creature. Maybe a nip and tuck here and there would not hurt but overall I think they have what it takes.

Edited March 29, 2007 by Maximius

[Springheel 4630]

In the screen shot of the Thiefs equiptment, are those pebbles in the upper left hand corner? If so, are these, ala FarCry, used to attract/distract AIs?

 

You got it. We had an early internal debate long ago about whether we should include noise arrows or not. Eventually noise arrows won, but we decided to also include small rocks you could carry in your inventory as a replacement for those who prefer 'equipment-light' missions.

[Maximius 0]

You got it. We had an early internal debate long ago about whether we should include noise arrows or not. Eventually noise arrows won, but we decided to also include small rocks you could carry in your inventory as a replacement for those who prefer 'equipment-light' missions.

 

Excellent! I always loved the pebble idea, lo tech, infinitely reusable/renewable, makes perfect sense. Noise arrows are fine of course, one of the more sensible of the special arrows IMO, but I've always thought that they had a few logical problems, such as if a AI heres a pebble rattling, thats a sound that anything could make, you may check out that noise but its not going to send you into a Red Alert status.

 

But a spring loaded gizmo or (sigh...) the Roman Candles of TDS would not only alert guards, it would IMO make them really, really, really, really, really suspicious. As in "I aint ever coming down off of high alert, cause I've never heard that particularly extra weird noise before in all my years of guarding stuff." im certainly not arguing to get rid of them, but I think there should be heavy consequences to their use, much like using a fire arrow will draw everything and its aunt to your location.

 

 

One more question, will the AIs be able to see arrows? I have always found it a little weird that a guard will walk down a hallway and hey, theres an arrow laying in the middle of lady Snootfields bedroom floor, but bah, nothing really out of the ordinary. An arrow laying around a bedroom should be like finding a bullet casing on your living room floor when you get home from work at night, you start asking >serious< questions and poking around.

 

If I had my druthers, I would make it that after firing water, rope, broads, noise, moss, or gas arrows, you have to pick up the arrow shaft or guards will spot it and raise hell. These shafts then just disappear, its just to account for the Thief stashing them or something similar. Except for rope and broads I should say.

 

Fire arrow shafts burn up and the shaft of a vine arrow can be subsumed into the vine. (Im not calling for new animations or anything, Im just saying its easy to think of these things happening and so we neednt worry about them.) But the other kinds should require a little cleanup I believe.

Edited March 29, 2007 by Maximius

[Order of the Hammer Bureaucrat 0]

If I found a bullet casing on the carpet upon coming home I'd just assume my brother, one of his friends, or my uncle was playing around, and proceed to the kitchen to get something to eat.

[greebo 34]

One more question, will the AIs be able to see arrows? I have always found it a little weird that a guard will walk down a hallway and hey, theres an arrow laying in the middle of lady Snootfields bedroom floor, but bah, nothing really out of the ordinary. An arrow laying around a bedroom should be like finding a bullet casing on your living room floor when you get home from work at night, you start asking >serious

This could be done by setting up a visual stim on the arrows and a response on the guards so that they react to it. Not yet implemented, but feasible without fiddling in the SDK, I think.