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Aceyalone
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Well at schools last year we all give some exams to enter the university. These exams are veeery hard and to achieve in some good universities study must be over 4 hours per day (even weekends). If you fail to achieve at least half of the maximum grade then you are disqualified from entering even the worst one.

 

I am not gonna discuss if this is good or bad, just point something that I encountered yesterday even f I knew it was a fact! In my town there has been an Internet cafe where everyone gathers around there and play (what else...) WoW. the point is that I have old friends and familiars going there. Still, whats the case, you will ask!

 

Well the fact is that these guys are playing almost 10 hours per day! And mostly night hours during 20:00 - 07:00. These guys have really F@C&ED of their studies and from studens of 18 - 20 (20 is maximum grade) they have become students of 05 - 06. A good student if fails to achieve a good score takes it more than seriously and now that its university time for them they should have taken it more. However the have really left studies, life and everything from their life for a stupid game.

 

And when I say everything, I mean everything! E.g: There was a friend of mine which me and another friend told him to meet a girl (also friend of ours - but he didnt know her) and eventually for something to work out. This guy I am describing is nice-looking but never had a girlfriend. Can you guess his response?

- Sorry, really cant do now! I must cap my char in WoW and reach lvl 70. After that, why not???

 

Yesterday we were going into a club and asked him to come with us... Can you guess another response?

-Sorry, I have a raid!

 

GOD JESUS! Whats wrong with these ppl? I gradually see these guys in there and they are getting constantly fatter and fatter, almost all non-smokers had started smoking and noone (and I mean noone) has short hair! Everyone has long dirty, smelly and disgusting hair.

 

I surely know that each guy (because no woman would hold being in there) had suffered a cosmotheory change to the worst. I just cant stand seeing some guys like that and mostly former friend that I could go out and laugh and discuss at them. Now every time we go out they tell us about WoW stories and we swear them. I just hate this to happen and yet I cant do anything!

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I know that both WOW and it's expansion pack are still on the top of the best selling list each week.

 

I don't know why there is such a massive appeal to MMO's though, I don't like them, they're just far too immersive breaking for me to see all the text floating above everyone and all the stupid real world whiney 14 year old voices. And the HUDs for pretty much all MMO's are the most ungodly things ever, another immersion breaker.

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I'm currently putting together and article about this, as I believe video game addiction is going to be a really big problem soon. The trouble is that no one has recognised this yet and there's no support for those who do become addicted. You just have to look at sites such as this to appreciate the scale of the problem. Recently a friend of mine had to smash up his WoW CDs to stop himself playing any more. :(

 

I don't think playing video games for long hours is in itself a bad thing. The best art, be it books or whatever, is immersive (and no one would argue that reading a book for hours is bad for you). Most game have a beginning a middle and an end, and once you finish, you're done for good. What worries me about WoW is that rather than holding up a mirror to the real world (like the best art does) it tries to replace it with another world. You don't learn anything playing WoW, it doesn't make you appreciate the real world more, it just says "you don't need real life, you can live, /eat, /sleep, /dance, in this fake world we've created." There's no beginning and end to it, you're just stuck in an endless loop of repetitive tasks to reach a pointless goal that will reveal nothing.

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I did play Everquest too much 6-7 years ago when I first got into computers and gaming in general.. It's not just a matter of being addicted, but it becomes true that you have good friends in the online world, some people, I'm sure, end up with better friends there than in the real world, and even responsibilities to go on raids etc.

I simply refuse to play MMOs at all any more.

There are many reasons why people play too much. One of them is the strong competitive nature most people have, they just have to level up, get better gear, and just be better then everyone else.

Also, I bet a lot of people feel more valued, liked and useful in the game than they do in real life.

Civillisation will not attain perfection until the last stone, from the last church, falls on the last priest.

- Emil Zola

 

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There are many reasons why people play too much. One of them is the strong competitive nature most people have, they just have to level up, get better gear, and just be better then everyone else.

Also, I bet a lot of people feel more valued, liked and useful in the game than they do in real life.

 

Yes I agree with that! MMO is their chance to prove they are "someone" that they are not in the real life. And unfortunatelly the "someone" they aren't is something god-like or what... I only pray of this, to be just a fashion of newest time and nothing more! Cause what "someone" are you going to prove you are, when in Korea ppl die out of this!!!!!!!

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It could become a big problem, as it is another element that can be a catch for addictive personalities. The difference with video games is more a matter of time than money, as it takes away from other activities and necessities, especially for anyone who is responsible for a family or full-time job.

 

Everything should be done in moderation. There's no problem with having an all-night LAN party or burning through an exciting new title once in a while, but unfortunately the glitzy lure of interactivity and anonymous socializing tend to make weaker people prioritize gaming higher than it should ever be.

Loose BOWELS are the first sign of THE CHOLERA MORBUS!
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There's no beginning and end to it, you're just stuck in an endless loop of repetitive tasks to reach a pointless goal that will reveal nothing.

I'd say the same thing about life, especially if one believes in re-incarnation.

 

I used to play a MUD. only one MUD. since 1997 to the present day I have the same character, who is far from the top in terms of score or levels. First I played because it provided more interactivity, immersiveness and socialization than playing doom or catacomb abyss. Then I played it as interactive fiction and for socializing. Since 2001 I played it strictly to practice speaking Dutch. I met many good people who helped me learn it, but unfortunately I have no spoken component of it, only written. Then I abandoned learning Dutch when I found out the girl I was learning it for had a boyfriend and was happy with him. Since 2004 I play a few weeks a year where I'm on 24 hours a day doing repetitive tasks, but hardly ever at the keyboard itself. I've been perfecting my botting technique, as well as using linux and networking skills. Recently my brother reported I've been kicked out of my guild after only being inactive since september.

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I'm currently putting together and article about this, as I believe video game addiction is going to be a really big problem soon. The trouble is that no one has recognised this yet and there's no support for those who do become addicted. You just have to look at sites such as this to appreciate the scale of the problem. Recently a friend of mine had to smash up his WoW CDs to stop himself playing any more. :(

 

I don't think playing video games for long hours is in itself a bad thing. The best art, be it books or whatever, is immersive (and no one would argue that reading a book for hours is bad for you). Most game have a beginning a middle and an end, and once you finish, you're done for good. What worries me about WoW is that rather than holding up a mirror to the real world (like the best art does) it tries to replace it with another world. You don't learn anything playing WoW, it doesn't make you appreciate the real world more, it just says "you don't need real life, you can live, /eat, /sleep, /dance, in this fake world we've created." There's no beginning and end to it, you're just stuck in an endless loop of repetitive tasks to reach a pointless goal that will reveal nothing.

 

There actually is support and there are addict clinics in Europe that treat this disorder. Therapy per say. It is a problem. However it is up to the person what they want to do with their life. If they want to be an a hourly paid job and play WoW then let them. Really worrying about other people is just not worth it. Someone could die tommorow you never know. I use to be addicted to WoW but then I just got myself out of it. Some people can't do that because they have the addict gene. (It's real some people have it some don't) Or some just don't want to and are happy where they are in WoW. WoW is an escape from reality. The world is a sorry place right now. It's not exactly better than in the past and definately not worse, somewhere in

between.

 

It's better to just stay out of a persons business. If you get involved then you just create more problems for yourself. Hope this helps. ^_^

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It's better to just stay out of a persons business. If you get involved then you just create more problems for yourself. Hope this helps. ^_^

 

Is this really the case? These guys need help and rehab! When you know a person can really offer (I am telling that because I have seen everyone in before-WoW era) wont you care about him and his progress?

The guy mentioning above having left his studies, I feel sorry about him! Because he is addicted and cant understand now, shall he be doomed for his whole life? Dont know maybe sounds stupid, but everytime I see such a guy, I try to change his mind with showing him how real life is and for showing how it is to have a girlfriend ffs!!!

 

When for a period of time I found myself getting addicted to Guild Wars and started having seen my pals for more than 3 months, I knew something was going on and quited! Still if there was none of them to make me company and I had been abandoned, I may couldnt quit! So help is always welcome! Just some ppl need more help either because they are more addicted, or because they are having less real world sources or even due to adulthood cases...

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Oh and when we say about addicts have a look at this:Unreal Addict

(Sorry sparhawk this doesnt affect anyone of your country, this offends anyone that resembles him)

 

Its not WoW relevance nor any MMO. But it is what lies behind. I have re-posted that in some other thread but then I thought it was fun (in the thread -which I had began- I had posted that, I made some fun comments)! Well after a few considerations, I thought this was much more serious! And hell, what would I do if this was MY son???

 

Honestly now, I would feel that I failed as a father and hopeless, not knowing what to do! And as a matter for discussion, think of every such kid's father... What should be his response to that??

Edited by Aceyalone
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Well, there is doubt as to the validity of that video, but even if that kid was just acting I know there are people who are like that.

 

My advice is that if you really are in a position to possibly help someone (you are their good friend already, or you are a family member), then talking to them is a good thing. Be nice of course, let them know you care and are concerned. You never know, it just might be the thing that helps them think it over and decide to make a change or get help.

 

If you aren't really in a position but you still want to help, maybe you can talk to one of their good friends or family members to bring the problem to their attention, after which they can talk to him.

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That kid is pretty convincing to me, but I have to ask, who the heck is taping him and why? And to destroy the keyboard...that's just too dramatic for me to believe in its legitimacy.

 

I hated MMOs because of obligations (and many players relish obligations to reinforce a role for themselves and a sense of belonging) as well as the time suck they required. The games were just too slow (yeah, I had that kind of time in high school, but certainly not anymore). Maybe your friend should just have gotten into sex, drugs, and rock and roll. Get him a girlfriend though and I'm sure he'll lay off it.

 

Its really the social aspect of the game that is addicting. Many people become dependent on the game to feed their drive for human interaction, but certainly I wouldn't say the game itself is addicting. Actually, if you've played it, its pretty boring (and simple). The only times it's ever good are those shared with friends. I think a lot of people have a grave fear of social interaction, of being judged or unaccepted. A lot of gamers experience this (as they would rather be playing games then playing with their peers). In a way, games can be a release from those expectations; lifting the social burden off of their shoulders. And once dependent on the game to take this away...

 

Hell, I've experienced addiction. I remember those days I took off from school to play Diablo II back in the day (I was still an honors student heh). I never took off for the sole purpose of playing, while rather just to put off school work, but certainly I had rather felt like doing that than interacting socially on weekends with other people. But yeah, my parents had to intervene a few times and give me a stern lecture about balancing things.

 

MUDs are by far the worse though, I would say. They don't merely seek to provide an escape, but to be successful, they seek to completely replace your life with a second one. I played a star wars one for quite some time that features permanent death (caused by other players) and a decent enough role play atmosphere where you felt like you were part of the universe it created. When a character gets permed that you put weeks bringing to life, honestly you feel a tinge of sadness. I always felt close to my characters and their struggles, as if I was interacting in a living, breathing novel. Thats part of the problem, I was. And I know college students that would be logged in constantly, only going afk between classes and for the most part, hanging around their offices or corporate headquarters in game when nothing was going on; simply biding their time for a role-playing opportunity.

 

If you were the head of one of the few engineering companies, you were expected to manage your business and the politics with the Republic (or whomever was in power) nightly. I remember getting calls at two in the morning to log onto my bounty hunter and ice some guy. Granted, I have some fond memories from it, but really, its a bit frightening to realize how many nights I spent absorbed in a fantasy land.

 

Hell, I even wanted to make a Thief themed MUD because I wanted to completely immerse myself in that world. In the end I realized that though it makes for a nice fantasy, fantasy can only be the shadow of real life. For the most part, fantasies help us deal with problems we face everyday and our own struggles--but then perhaps they should stay as fantasies and never actually be pursued (in the case of MUD playing and making). They serve their purpose as a day-dream escape. And that's all I want them to be, nothing more.

 

Also not surprising, most of the players of this particular MUD loved to combine their gaming with drugs. I certainly know many who consistently played WoW while intoxicated or stoned just to make the experience more enjoyable (and to make grinding more enjoyable, certainly). In the end, one could almost see it as a coping tool. I'm a firm believer now that putting yourself out there and enjoying the experiences of youth are far more important than curling up into your shell. You can keep digging yourself a hole, but eventually there's just no further you can keep running away.

 

So what is the addict gene? Gambling addicts are said to actually experience a mix of depression and anxiety when they are not gambling--I find it interesting that addiction isn't simply the desire for pleasure, but most often a desire to alleviate the other extreme. I think the answer lies in fear and how humans deal with it. Its a shame but don't take responsibility for his actions. You see the destruction its causing and that makes you much wiser than he--be there for him, but you have no obligation to intervene. You can only point it out, and leave the rest up to his better judgment.

Edited by Ombrenuit
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If the video is real, it could easily be his parents or someone put a hidden camera off to the side but zoomed in on that spot, or it could just be fake and he could be taping himself and acting.

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I use to be addicted to WoW but then I just got myself out of it. Some people can't do that because they have the addict gene. (It's real some people have it some don't) Or some just don't want to and are happy where they are in WoW.

 

Don't know if it is really a gene. I tended to think that I'm a gambler, and maybe, if I hadn't got an computer back in the early eighties, I might have become a real gambler. As it is, I experienced some of the effects that make you addicted, so I'm not sure wether I'm a potential addtictive person or not. Since I can always break away easily maybe I'm not. I played games where I got up in the morning and considered not to go to work, or call in being sick, just to be able to play more. I always thought that this would be the firs signs of addiction. It never went so far to become so addictated that I threw my life away though. Mostly it took only a few days at most, when I realized what path I started to follow, and then I simply stopped doing it, until everythign was back to normal. The same happened with smoking. I neve liked smoking and so I didn't. But there was a time, when I smoked a few cigarettes for some reason, and suddenly, one day, I actually had an appetite to smoe one. This was the day I stopped smoking, because I knew that I would become a smoker if I continued now.

Maybe it's similar with other persons. Maybe they do realize what's happening but don't care enough, and once you are in, you are addicted. I don't know if there is a gene that makes you don't care enough, even if you do realize whats happening. If there is, these people might have no choice, as I had. If there is no such "gene" and the people just did it for other reasons, well, then it's really their intentional problem. Some certainly might not realize whats happening, but I can't believe that this is the case for all of them. After all, there are enough examples around to show them what happens, but they just ignore it. Maybe on the basis that they believe that they are stronger and something like this can not happen to them.

Gerhard

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Is this really the case? These guys need help and rehab! When you know a person can really offer (I am telling that because I have seen everyone in before-WoW era) wont you care about him and his progress?

The guy mentioning above having left his studies, I feel sorry about him! Because he is addicted and cant understand now, shall he be doomed for his whole life? Dont know maybe sounds stupid, but everytime I see such a guy, I try to change his mind with showing him how real life is and for showing how it is to have a girlfriend ffs!!!

 

You can not change an addicted person. They have to do this on their own. You can provide them help and advice, but they have to want to do it. Otherwise it's just a waste of time.

Gerhard

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Oh and when we say about addicts have a look at this:Unreal Addict

(Sorry sparhawk this doesnt affect anyone of your country, this offends anyone that resembles him)

 

You think I would be offended just because this happens to be a german kid? First of all I'm not german anyway. :) And second, it doesn't really matter if a german or an austrian makes a fool of himself. I'm not as stupid to think that all my fellow countrymen are great people. There is a good number of idiots just like in any other country, and a few of them live right next in my neighborhood. :P

 

Well after a few considerations, I thought this was much more serious! And hell, what would I do if this was MY son???

 

I don't think that this video is for real. I rather think it's made up for fun. Anyway, even supposing that it were for real, if it is your kids, you have to stop them. My daughter, while not as extrem as this, also showed a tendency for computer addiction. Since we knew what might happen, we just let it run for some time and see if she would restrict herself after some time. After all, it's normal, that you spend more time with something that's new and exciting to you. After a few weeks we realized that no change is to come about and so we intervened. She didn't want to go out of the house anymore, and on free days off school, she went up and went immediatley in front of the computer until night when she went to bed. First we talked to her, but that didn't help. Since she didn't want to change her habbits, we simply reduced her access to the computer. Now she is only allowed to go on the computer at 19:30 till 21:00 and after a few days everything was back to normal. Now she got used to this and she goes outside during the day and plays again with her friends.

 

In case of my sun it's even worse. He is much younger, and when he plays computer he gets so agitated, that he forgets everything around him. When he gets older I wouldn't be surprised if he would behave like this kid, as he already can exhibit such behaviour when he gets to frustrated, which is inevitable. Therfero we cut his time completely, and now he is only allowed every now and then to play on the computer. Mostly if it is raining, but even then only for short time (like half an hour or so, maybe one at most).

 

So what should you do if this were your sun? It would be your repsonsibillity to restrain him just as we did, until he gets back to normal, and allow him only as much access as makes sense, so that he can adjust to it, and live a normal live as well, beside the computer. It's quite obvious, isn't it? But of course, there are enough parents, who are happy enough that their kids are in front of the computer, because then they know that he is just in his room playing with friends via the computer and doesn't do any mischiev. Which of course is quite wrong, but it's much easier for the parents.

 

Honestly now, I would feel that I failed as a father and hopeless, not knowing what to do! And as a matter for discussion, think of every such kid's father... What should be his response to that??

 

Since this is still a kid, you shouldn't think that you already failed, because it's still possible to do something.

 

There is one thingk you really should know about computer games. You can't beat the computer. Period. Even if you complete a game, there is still enough to do to continue. A higher score, killing more enemies, finding more loot, etc.. This ultimately leads to frustration. As an adult you should eralize this and restrain yourself. As a kid your parents should do this for you and guide you so that you can deal with it.

Gerhard

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Young children showing agitation or anger when playing games isn't anything new though. As a child me and my brother would get really mad at Nintendo. Back then we lacked the proper hand eye coordination to get Mario to jump over the pits every time which was frustrating. Eventually I just stopped playing games that made me mad, or in the case of Counter-Strike, which I still play and used to get angry over if there was hackers or such, I just don't care anymore. When your a kid or even a teenager you lack a real life, such as responsibilities or a firm grip on reality so things like games take a larger part of your life I think. As you get older games are simply a form of entertainment rather than something that is important. When I was in highschool I'd play Diablo 2 all the time, now I can't see myself ever playing a game that much ever again. If you grow up and you are still avoiding responsibilities of life to do something like spend your night playing WoW instead of doing homework, you simply need to grow up. I don't think it's an addiction, hell growing up is hard, so why would it be easy to give up WoW in that sense? Computer addiction is the equivalent to a couch potato imo.

 

I think Sparhawk is right in that people do need a push in the right direction sometimes like he did with his children.

 

edit: Perhaps I'm trying to make a connection subconsciously between substance addiction and an activity addiction though. I've drunken coffee since grade 4 so obviously I need it to function at max capacity, but I'm having trouble imagining ever needing a video game. Yes I may really want to play a game, but there is no dependency there. Any comments? And on the note of WoW being a substitute for social interaction, isn't msn or email the same thing? So is it that bad really?

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Young children showing agitation or anger when playing games isn't anything new though. As a child me and my brother would get really mad at Nintendo.

 

Yes, I know. But even so, we have to limit his access, as he gets VERY agitated.

 

If you grow up and you are still avoiding responsibilities of life to do something like spend your night playing WoW instead of doing homework, you simply need to grow up. I don't think it's an addiction, hell growing up is hard, so why would it be easy to give up WoW in that sense? Computer addiction is the equivalent to a couch potato imo.

 

But apparently it is a big problem for a lot of people, and the industry certainly doesn't help you there.

 

 

I think Sparhawk is right in that people do need a push in the right direction sometimes like he did with his children.

 

Yes I may really want to play a game, but there is no dependency there.

 

You become addicted if you start to set your priorites such that the game becomes more important than your life. Not going to work, neglecting your friends, not paying bills, neglecting to eatc, etc. ...

 

Any comments? And on the note of WoW being a substitute for social interaction, isn't msn or email the same thing? So is it that bad really?

 

IMO the major difference is, that games are designed to keep you playing it. email is not. If you don't get an answer you eveutally will stop looking, but with games, especially the MMORG type games, the designer wants yxou to continue with it, and provide new content to kepp you hooked. Just like a drug dealer will give you every now and then a free dosage, if you look like you would break away from it.

Gerhard

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I don't play MMOs precisely because I'm quite sure I would get addicted if I did. The escapism is very very tempting... it's only knowledge of the consequences of such an addiction that stops me.

 

I already spend way too much time on various internet forums as it is. I wouldn't call it an addiction; more of a habit. But it is detrimental. I really need to be doing an assignment now; I only fired up my browser so I didn't have to think about it for a while. :(

My games | Public Service Announcement: TDM is not set in the Thief universe. The city in which it takes place is not the City from Thief. The player character is not called Garrett. Any person who contradicts these facts will be subjected to disapproving stares.
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Sparhawk, I reply to your #16 post, since it is too big and I dont want to re-post it!

 

Well, sure I know that these doesnt affect you, but in general some ppl have a tendency to resemble one's counrty example with the whole country, thinking that one's country ppl must resemble in each other when regarding social behaviour and education matters. If you dont believe this happens, try seeing the posts in the youtube's video. I said that just wanting to be ok from my side.

 

Now about the genuity of the video... Guys I think this video is real. And is so real that we regard this as fake! No child has such acting abilities and besides I already know ppl that have had broken keyboards, smashed pads and etc. In Korea ppl are killing each e.g beacuse someone decided to sell an item another had. We are talking about deaths here. And in the example I describe I have read almost 3 - 4 such cases and characteristically in one I read that the killer, when asked why did he killed him, responsed: "Its better now, besides I made him a "backstab", hehe"!!!!! Even murder has started looking as nothing seroius in some guys like them. (Wonder how much WoW and Lineage the would play in prison). And not counting in the deaths of constant playing (I think hi-score is 7 or 12 days)

 

As for the prohitive measures I think it is very right what sparhawk mentions. And dont know how many already know that, but Bill Gates having seen the same symptoms at his daughter restricted her pc-time to 45 mins. But in my opinion you must restrict it and then explain why you had done that. In sparhawk's case he had done it before, when trying to talk at her, but not many parents bother doing that and even more dont bother even seeing if their kids do have a problem. Almost 50 million ppl in China considered to be addicted.

 

And another one... What girlfriend should I find and which one would stay with him when he spends half a day playing WoW. Still suppose we do find those...if the guy doesnt want to have one (read post #1) I cannot force him to have one!

Edited by Aceyalone
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It doesn't really matter if this particular video is genuine or not, because there are people who act like this, so it doesn't change anything about this discussion if it is a fake one.

 

As for the deaths. I wouldn't overdramatize it. How many people are actually playing games, and how much of them are going to die because of it? I think the percentage is insignifkant to really worry about it.

Gerhard

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As for the deaths. I wouldn't overdramatize it. How many people are actually playing games, and how much of them are going to die because of it? I think the percentage is insignifkant to really worry about it.

Well, I am afraid I dont see it like this. Why should even a single one die out of this? Games are supposed to be entertainment arent they? And each start doesnt come as a major fact, but instead comes slowly and after some period it starts seeing like something. I dont know if the situation deteriorates (in my opinion I think it will) since we already have all the means for this addiction to evolve but this generation lived somewhat out of this (I dont mean games, but online games, which are much more addictive since they give you the false depict of a real life!).

 

Maybe it wouldnt change dramatically, thats for sure, but still I dont feel comfortable and ok seeing this phenomenon...

Edited by Aceyalone
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Well, I am afraid I dont see it like this. Why should even a single one die out of this? Games are supposed to be entertainment arent they?

 

People die for all kind of reasons. Dynamite was invented to help miners, and still people die from it. Blackpowder was also invented for entertainment and people die of it regularly. And much more that poeple who are dying from computergames. If somebody takes a game so seriously that he dies, then he has lost the Darwinian Game. If enough people consider computer gaming serious enough that it gets involved with deaths, then it can also become part of evolution. I don't see a big problem here just because a few nuts are spending so much time on their computer that they die of exhaustion.

Gerhard

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Be careful about looking at things from a cause and effect angle. There is a lot more going on here then just games, and games are just a facet of that situation. It isn't games that would kill the person--if they stopped playing their problems wouldn't suddenly disappear. They seek escapism for a reason, and if those issues aren't solved, either way, that's whats hurting them; the game is just a tool used to cope.

 

I was thinking: how could one define gaming addiction? When someone is no longer playing for simple pleasure, but rather when someone is playing to alleviate pain. This creates dependancy and is similar to that of drugs--when one stops taking drugs simply for the pleasure of it, but rather to escape from their own life pains. The same goes for the failure of many relationships: when one isn't simply dating someone for the increased enjoyment and love, but rather is dependant on them to fill holes in their life.

 

So, its not the games that kill them. It's themselves. Games aren't some great evil because they can be abused to people can become dependant on them to drive their lives just as alcohol isn't. Anything can be abused. Books wouldn't be evil if some bloke died of exhaustion in his study because he got too absorbed reading the latest Tom Clancy thriller.

 

Thus: social problem, not a gaming problem. Solve the social problem and you solve everything.

Edited by Ombrenuit
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So, its not the games that kill them. It's themselves. Games aren't some great evil because they can be abused to people can become dependant on them to drive their lives just as alcohol isn't. Anything can be abused.

 

Exactly. That's also the reason why I don't really see a problem with games on their own account.

Gerhard

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