Bioshock stuff

[Macsen]

Bioshock is a plot driven game so of course it's designed so that people finish it. Games don't have to be a challenge. They can just strive to create an immersive world so that the plot has more of an effect on the player. I'm not convinced that games do this any better than films and books, but Bioshock does make good use of gaming conventions in order to deliver a decent twist. Too bad this happens about 3/4 through the game and the rest is a bit of a bore.

[Ombrenuit]

It can work for some games, MMO games for example, where there is no real stopping point.

I saw an interview for WoW where they talked about building one huge level that maybe only 1% of users would ever reach. And the interviewer asked what's the point, and they gave a similar reply ... it's something to aspire to, and it rewards the people that have really stuck to it, and it keeps people knowing there's a much bigger world out there they haven't seen yet, so they keep subscribing.

 

But I don't think WoW is the kind of game Oddity had in mind ... since it's not really the difficulty that's stopping you, just the experience level, which is basically a transparent cover for how long you've played (i.e., how much subscription fee you've paid), which sort of taints the whole idea.

 

Actually not true. At end game, level isn't what's stopping you: strategy is. You have to tailor your guild and get them to cooperate on a level that can beat the end game bosses. There are only a handful of guilds who have ever faced the the highest level bosses in that game. And really their win is based on how well they play the equipment game, but most of all, their strategy and cooperation. Their achievements can be pretty intricate and difficult.

 

But in that case, the game is a job. I hated guilds because suddenly I was expected to be on at certain times. As soon as a game is deciding my commitments for me, I rebel. I'm not going to call off work for a raid or some shit.

Edited October 27, 2007 by Ombrenuit

[Freakboy]

Actually not true. At end game, level isn't what's stopping you: strategy is. You have to tailor your guild and get them to cooperate on a level that can beat the end game bosses. There are only a handful of guilds who have ever faced the the highest level bosses in that game. And really their win is based on how well they play the equipment game, but most of all, their strategy and cooperation. Their achievements can be pretty intricate and difficult.

 

But in that case, the game is a job. I hated guilds because suddenly I was expected to be on at certain times. As soon as a game is deciding my commitments for me, I rebel. I'm not going to call off work for a raid or some shit.

 

WoW has changed a lot from what it used to be since the release of The Burning Crusade. People used to raid to get PvP gear. Now that there's the arena, that's where they go. People still raid, but it's not nearly as much as it used to be. Plus, I think Blizzard dumbed down alot of the bosses just so people can see them. From what I've seen, there's at least 1-2 guilds on each server that's killed Illidan. I may have not looked at every server, but that seems to be the general theme. Once a guild can get past Kael'thas and getting the coordination down for Vashj, it's pretty much smooth sailing to Illidan.

[oDDity]

That's true, and interesting. Personally, I play a game like I read a book. I'm not a hardcore gamer, and I have little interest in playing hardcore games. It reminds me of playing pen and paper roleplaying games wiht my older brother. If I did manage to die, he'd just bring me back beause the point of the game was the experience and the story, not the glory of overcoming it. That said, would you consider difficulty levels an achievement? That said, even difficulty levels don't tend to be that challenging usually, but they could be, and I know with some games they are. Half Life 2 on hard is like a cake-walk.

 

I don't play games for the story, since game stories and plots are always simplistic shit, and the characters are always cutouts. I play for a challenge, having to work out a strategy to win. This can never be achieved by single player games though, at least not until AI programming reaches a near realistic level. Extreme difficult would have to be artificial in some way. You can only get a real challenge and satisfaction of winning by playing real people, in whatever arena, but FPS multiplayer games don't count here, since the gameplay is too simplistic to feel any satisfaction in winning.