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Static Modelling


_Atti_
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You'll just multiply the AO over the diffuse texture. I like to make two copies of the AO layers, one 100% multiply and one ~15% color burn (color burn layer isn't really standard though, but I think it adds a bit of color and looks a bit better). TDM doesn't use AO maps, but as far as I see it it would've just bee a waste as I don't think you can use multiple unwraps for one object.

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There are ways to blend in game, and I was trying that with normals.

 

But it's hard to get good results and often looks like a color dodge or something. Best to do as Nosslak said and combine it into the tex.

 

---------------

You don't have to do LOD's. Shadowmesh is definitely more important for performance. LOD's are just so new that nothing really has them yet (some outside stuff which is where it's most important anyway)

 

So it's up to you, if you want to you really only need one stage of LOD for the helm. (The high res, for baking... then 2 lods as in game models.)

The LOD would only be used when the guard was pretty far away. So yeah, not too important.

----------

Xnormal is a really nice baking tool, I use it too.

 

The polys can overlap between high and low, you just need to tweak the ray distances so they don't clip into other parts or miss all together. If they do they will leave blank or black spots, etc...

 

One thing you can do to make it easier is pull the ear guards away from the main helmet on the high and low and bake. Even delete one side and just bake one side of them and clone them, saves uv space, no overlapping polys while baking...

(that's good for the normal, you might need to rebake with them in place or touch up the ao by hand then for the AO bake)

Dark is the sway that mows like a harvest

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  • 2 weeks later...

"We could use someone who updates some of our "crude" models. F.i. creates "broken shards" from the glass bottles/lab glass. Or we have some statues which show clipping etc."

 

A lot of models has it's smoothing wrong, i intended to fix some of those but i dont see a way of converting the fixed meshes back to .lwo.. Only to .ase from an older blender build. But that would be no good i guess as the old maps using the model use .lwo-s..

 

Anyway, after the initial failures i think i am stepping back from the helmet for the moment, to something simpler so there is some useable results..

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A lot of models has it's smoothing wrong

 

If they're .lwo you can point them out to me and I'll fix them.

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If they are MY .ase and I think the point is valid I can re-export them.

 

Unfortunately finding an .ase importer is hard to do for newer versions of max. So some of the old models that we don't have sources for are stuck as is.

 

Also, sometimes on a properly smoothed obj you can get a weird shadow (ie:my pots with metal rings, sometimes I've seen one poly be completely shaded and it shows as a weird dark square when it should be smooth across.

the model is correct, it's just a doom3 render thing i guess).

Dark is the sway that mows like a harvest

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I've gone through all the models now and took notes of which ones have faults.

Those that has no notes next to them have smoothing problems.

 

Note that this is just my opinion and makes none of those models any less worthy of being there :)

Looking through it all, i am quite amazed how wide a range of assets the team produced over the years.Its getting near the asset-base of morrowind(Y). ;)

 

I'll post the list here so if someone with the right tool in the right mood comes around improvement could be done.

 

Meanwhile i am doing a table model variation we dont have yet (curved metal legs/structure).

 

EDIT: My mistake, i judged models smoothing based on their apperance in the editor. See below.

Edited by _Atti_
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knife_butcher.ase

bed_single_timber.ase

brush_hand.ase

mirror_hand.ase

chest_wood.ase

 

 

Those are mine, the chest, not sure, think so.

 

But really need more details as to what you think needs changed. The way smoothing groups work in Doom3 is not by smoothing groups from a modelling program, but by splitting a mesh at sharp seams, everything else is smoothed.

 

And I've done this to every one of my models very purposely where I wanted the groups to be. So without screenshots and specific descriptions I won't be touching them at all.

 

In fact I'd say that's a required step for any model changes. It can be a pain to go back and redo work, and if that's done just to appease one persons opinion on what is not right then we could just as well scrap TDM and start from scratch.

And if there is no description as to what the actual issue is it really is pointless.

 

And like I stated before, the smoothing issues are just as likely a Doom3 rendering thing. It may be local to you, it may be like that no matter what we do. And the engine does use vert lighting, so if models are too optimized lighting across large surfaces can be crappy.

 

But I'm pretty sure mine are all done how they are supposed to be.

 

Also, if looked at in the model viewer, well, that isn't the real time lighting engine and things often look wrong there. So make sure to look at them in a properly lit environment.

 

I personally haven't noticed any models in maps that looked terrible (the few that had issues I have tried to bring up before and I believe they were all fixed).

 

(for example, the timber bed has smoothing groups around the posts, but the caps are seperated for a harder edge. I even went back and added more polys to the blanket so the vert lighting shades across the large flat surfaces better.)

Dark is the sway that mows like a harvest

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"Also, if looked at in the model viewer, well, that isn't the real time lighting engine and things often look wrong there. So make sure to look at them in a properly lit environment."

 

Checked the models you did in-game, put them in a map with lights..

 

Got to admit, they look right in there. No errors, all perfect. Seems like it was just the editor view that messed them up..

To be honest all this time i was refraining from using those models in my half-finished maps because i thought they look that way.

 

Well I was wrong.

 

I removed the list.

 

"In fact I'd say that's a required step for any model changes. It can be a pain to go back and redo work, and if that's done just to appease one persons opinion on what is not right then we could just as well scrap TDM and start from scratch."

 

No need to worry that much..

I was on team a lot of years ago,I am clear that things dont just go into the core-mod without approval, And a backup that its an improvement.

Also please note that i didnt demand/required any work of anyone here.

Edited by _Atti_
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Yeah I understand. It's just easy to get carried away with 'needed' fixes to find out after work they aren't needed.

 

So I just want to make sure that it's thoroughly looked into before stuff gets worked on/changed.

Dark is the sway that mows like a harvest

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Oh, if you're fixing shading, quite often the problem is just that there are vertex normals exported.

 

Some exporters (old max) get vertex normals in ASE files correct. Doom3 will use this only if it is correctly formatted, if not it will silently weld the vertices and just use a single smooth shading group(more often than not, this is fine since it's per material). However, if the normals are correctly formatted but incorrect you end up with bad shading and usually a lot of extra vertices (i.e 300%). A lot of exporters either format the normals incorrectly - and are thus ignored, or they mangle them and produce bad results.

 

The lwo side of things seems to be a lot better, some of the old lw versions export everything with loads of extra vertices, which end up looking hard shaded. But newer versions seem to have this problem all sorted - I also dont think I've noticed much in the way of them being ignored.

 

For most ase's, I'd just not export the normals(unless you have specifically edited them, and expect them for some noticeable effect), or remove them from the file - specially ones that are exported from DR, since it will just give the same results of doom generating them, unless your model is non-manifold, but that's not ideal anyway (and I don't think you can do that, unless you dont export nodraw/caulk).

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  • 2 months later...

I am doing a bit of resizing work for Floood, and i am using the ASE exporter in blender 5.6.

I already did a successful export before, but never a multi material.

 

The setup is: One mesh, several materials. Materials named according to how they appear in the material file. Textures assigned.

I corrected the path by editing the .ASE.

DR only sees one material and it applies it all over the whole model

 

I tried comparing with other multi-mat .ASE but cant find whats wrong.

 

*MATERIAL_LIST {

*MATERIAL_COUNT 2

*MATERIAL 0 {

*MATERIAL_NAME "What should be defined here?" I entered the materialname

*MATERIAL_CLASS "Standard"

*MATERIAL_AMBIENT 0.0000 0.0000 0.0000

*MATERIAL_DIFFUSE 1.0000 1.0000 1.0000

*MATERIAL_SPECULAR 1.0000 1.0000 1.0000

.....

..

*MAP_DIFFUSE {

*MAP_NAME "Texture.001"

*MAP_CLASS "Bitmap"

*MAP_SUBNO 1

*MAP_AMOUNT 1.0000

*BITMAP "And here?" I entered the path to texture

 

And finally at the end of .ASE :

 

*PROP_MOTIONBLUR 0

*PROP_CASTSHADOW 1

*PROP_RECVSHADOW 1

*MATERIAL_REF 0 <----- DR recognizes the material set here as it seems..

If i set it 0 it all uses the first if '1' then the second material all over.

 

thanks in advance for the enlightening:)

Edited by _Atti_
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Each geometry object can only reference one material. If you change the value of MATERIAL_REF and it changes the entire model then you need to split the model into multiple geometry objects. Also the BITMAP field should be set to the material shader name. Ignore the MATERIAL_NAME field, it's not used in game.

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Thanks, Mesh was not split into objects (only by material and unwelding).

 

I also had to add //base/ before the material , if this was not present it only worked in the editor.

 

Thanks again! Saved many hours of further fooling around with it unsuccessfully:)

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 3 weeks later...

I was doodling around, and came up with these railed/sledged structures..

I dont know what they're called in english, here it's called 'Hombar' and were used for storaging purposes mainly and were often built on sledges/rails so they could move it around.

 

I thought about coming up with some design for pagans/nomads who would often need to haul their stocks and housing..with planks and boards they can be made into markets.storages,homes,workshops.

post-73-0-74669900-1320785682_thumb.jpg

post-73-0-14772800-1320785689_thumb.jpg

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They look very interesting, I specially like the wood structure, but I have two suggestions: you could probably use nurbs to create a more organic, membrane surface for the textile part (assuming they are covered by some kind of fabric material, though I think straw would actually look good); and since theu would mostly cut the wood with axes and such toos, the beams should probably be more irregular, not so orthogonal. I know you can easily add some "noise" to models in 3D studio, though the nurbs might be a bit harder, I only use them on Rhino...

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They look very interesting, I specially like the wood structure, but I have two suggestions: you could probably use nurbs to create a more organic, membrane surface for the textile part (assuming they are covered by some kind of fabric material, though I think straw would actually look good); and since theu would mostly cut the wood with axes and such toos, the beams should probably be more irregular, not so orthogonal. I know you can easily add some "noise" to models in 3D studio, though the nurbs might be a bit harder, I only use them on Rhino...

No better use a subdivisions modifier instead of nurbs. Polygons are more flexible and easy to work with and if you want to export some nurbs surfaces to a gaming application you need to transform the nurbs into polygons anyway.

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Right now, it's built from one quarter section mirrorred around to make uv mapping easier, once i've done this and applied the mirror modifiers i will be able to add some little deformations to beams here and there.

 

Nurbs: i can't use them, especially not in blender, didnt really delve into them yet. However i think in this case it wouldnt be useful because of polycount issues, maybe for the high-poly, but i'd rather sculpt it if something.

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Hello! I'm new here! I tried the Dark mod and it's very good, I want to help making some assets, now I'm making some market structures. Here's a picture in Blender:

111tv7d.jpg

the dark mod already has a lot of models to fill the structures, anyway if you need something specific let me know.

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Hey! ,and welcome!:)

 

Well, Darkmod almost have a model for every desire but all we add through models add variety to the world and possibilities which will hopefully lead to even more inspired maps :) So welcome.

I think working on marketstalls is a good thing to do, as these would be used widespead in street maps.

What i think current models lack is that marketstalls could be specialized. Market stalls for fruits'n'vegetables, meatstuff, clothing, beer, or various tools could differ in structure/design.

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TDM can also handle quite a few polys. So no reason to be too shy with them. For example, the box is a simple 6 sided box, an author can do that in 3 seconds in the editor, so no reason for a model really.

 

But you could add some trim wood pieces, make it more realistically built and more interesting. Maybe some wood trim 'rims' around the edges so stuff doesn't roll off, etc..

 

You can bevel corners so they are a bit round and have a 'thickness' to them. Sharp square edges don't look that great.

Dark is the sway that mows like a harvest

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Yes, welcome volt, it's good to see more modelers wanting to create objects for this awesome mod. You could also take a look at the Dark Mod wiki for tutorials on how to go about formatting models to be used by the game (like here http://wiki.thedarkmod.com/index.php?title=Modeling_-_Basic_Tutorial or here http://wiki.thedarkmod.com/index.php?title=Starting_to_Model_for_TDM); like Baddcog said, don't be afraid of adding more detail, and specially, remember this was between "middle ages" and a industrial era, so most of the everyday objects are still very much hand made, wood is cut with manual tools (no perfectly regular beams), etc. Would probably be cool to go looking for photo references of ancient or victorian woodcraft.

 

@ Flanders and Atti= yeah guys, don't worry, I'm not good at modelling for games anyway, I'm trying to learn 3D studio as we speak, will be more helpful in the future hopefully.

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