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Rope Physics Videos


Scope

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Crispy, what if the objects falls whiel player is hanging on rope? what if that box in video #2 falls AWAY from the player while the player is ON the rope, would the player be PULLED UP?

This won't happen. The player will let go of the rope in cases where the rope gains too much velocity. It gets pulled out of his hands.

 

ANother question

How do NPCs react to hanging ropes, or arrow stuck in objects in general??

They will get suspicious.

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So I guess your inventors also put a small button on the end of the arrow which triggers the hooks to release. I always wondered how Garrett managed to pull those arrows out of the wood, while jumping off the rope onto a ledge. I mean, those carry his own weight as we said before already!! :)

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I don't know the exact details, because the inventors are very closemouthed, but I think there is a trick that allows you to pull out an embedded arrow smoothly, without breaking it. Otherwise you couldn't reuse it, considering how much force it needs to hook into the wood, to support your weight.

Gerhard

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Impressive videos, great looking physics that open up some interesting gameplay possibilities here.

 

Question: Will it be possible to fix the other end of the rope to something and so create a line to climb along? I ask because this would tie in with being able to hold the end of the rope and fire the arrow horizontally into an object. Then rather than pulling it by climbing onto the rope you could just pull it - and pull things onto NPCs!

I want your brain... to make his heart... beat faster.

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Impressive videos, great looking physics that open up some interesting gameplay possibilities here.

 

Question: Will it be possible to fix the other end of the rope to something and so create a line to climb along? I ask because this would tie in with being able to hold the end of the rope and fire the arrow horizontally into an object. Then rather than pulling it by climbing onto the rope you could just pull it - and pull things onto NPCs!

 

Now this would be a bloody fantastic feature.

 

To take the loose end of rope, attach it to another arrow (which would have to be another rope arrow), and fire it into a parallel wood surface to create a horizontal rope to shimmy across would be awesome... Especially if one could fire it at a lower wood area to create a zip-line, across buildings - which would be useful, and a fun addition...

 

But the question is, is it feasible, and is it practical?

 

Many problems could arise,

 

Would the rope behave correctly?

Would the rope collide correctly with other world objects?

What happens if you run out of rope? does the arrow detach, or does it fall dead to the ground?

 

I have this gut feeling something like this wouldn't be practical without a lot more work adding to feature creep.

 

Still sounds great though, nice thinking S-E. :)

Edited by Scope
-Scope
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I have this gut feeling something like this wouldn't be practical without a lot more work adding to feature creep.

 

Yep, that about sums it up. If we had nothing but the rope arrow to work on, we could probably do it, but we'd like to release an entire toolkit, not just a rope simulator. :)

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Well thats cool, I can understand the reasoning.

 

We all want a functioning TDM tool-kit by the end of 2008, and that deadline will slip further and further away the more suggested features are implemented into the initial release. Hopefully after getting the standard thief features into the mod, releasing it, and having a well deserved rest - We will see you guys implement the more time consuming suggestions in incremental releases if possible.

 

Anyway keep up the great work, its the updates that pay such attention to detail - like the rope physics, which make the wait much less painfull.

 

Cheers,

 

Scope.

-Scope
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A feature like that would also be a new problem for mappers, 'cause they'd have to think a lot further, which materials they use when and how if they want the player to follow a certain way now and then... But that pulling crates on NPCs idea is awsome!! :) Kills (or knockouts) like that could get a special rating like in hitman: "Accidents: XX" . :D

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The rope can lay across a gap like that, and you can cling on to it, but you can't move along it, the way the climbing code currently works. AFAIK, the guys are trying to avoid having the rope do those sorts of things because they'd have to implement more functionality for it to work the way you'd expect.

 

Ishtvan or greebo could tell you more.

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The rope can lay across a gap like that, and you can cling on to it, but you can't move along it, the way the climbing code currently works.

You can actually, it's just rather jerky because it's a WIP system right now. Also, this rarely ever happens, because the other end of the rope isn't fixed, the player's weight usually pulls the rope down.

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You can actually, it's just rather jerky because it's a WIP system right now. Also, this rarely ever happens, because the other end of the rope isn't fixed, the player's weight usually pulls the rope down.

 

 

So what happens if top is shot horisontally over a gap and a heavy box is placed at loose end of the rope?

 

could the player "walk" across on the rope?

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I think kohan is asking what happens if the player intentionally drapes the rope over some gap (for example, by shooting it into a crate and then carrying the crate around), and then places a heavy crate on the other end of the rope, then jumps on it.

 

It might be possible to set up that situation, it all depends on the friction of the rope and crate, the weight of the anchor crates and whether they wedge on something, etc.

 

Anyway, if you could set up that situation, then yes, you could conceivably jump on the rope. Right now though, the system for moving in the horizontal direction on the rope is very WIP and not release-quality. It kind've teleports you along from one rope AF body to the next. This is because when designed, it was assumed that ropes would be more up/down when horizontal, so the player wouldn't notice a jump to the next AF body horizontal coordinates when they were moving up and down.

 

I think it should be fairly easy to fix though, by changing how the rope attachment point is tracked and moving smoothly along each AF body axis instead of moving only vertically and teleporting in the horizontal to correct. You might get some weird behavior when there are sharp bends in the rope though. Whether we'll have time to fix this before the first release, I can't say.

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You can actually, it's just rather jerky because it's a WIP system right now. Also, this rarely ever happens, because the other end of the rope isn't fixed, the player's weight usually pulls the rope down.

Okay fine, I'm just going to start answering "if it seems real, they've already implemented it" hehe.

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It might be possible to set up that situation, it all depends on the friction of the rope and crate, the weight of the anchor crates and whether they wedge on something, etc.

 

Anyway, if you could set up that situation, then yes, you could conceivably jump on the rope.

 

An FM author might intentionally set up this situation from the beginning, as well. I remember moments in the OMs where ropes were already attached and hanging, waiting for G to climb, e.g., in the Bonehoard and The Sword. An author could set up a horizontally grounded rope pre-set for the PC to climb across, or even something like a makeshift rope bridge ... good for variety's sake.

Edited by demagogue

What do you see when you turn out the light? I can't tell you but I know that it's mine.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Great job on the rope arrows, guys! :)

 

Will crates of the same size have different weights possible? For example, there might be a small crate that you want to shoot a rope arrow into to climb up, normally this would be a problem, but this crate happens to be filled with many metal objects, so it's much heavier than a typical small crate. Could you climb up such a small yet heavy crate without pulling the crate down?

 

The thing about dragging a crate with a rope arrow sticking in it and holding the loose end with another crate doesn't seem to make sense. If you could shoot a large crate with a rope arrow high above you and then climb up onto the crate and then pick the crate up and drag it back down some long staircase to where you were or to some other location, with the deployed rope dragging behind the crate, and then maneuver the crate so that you could walk around to the other side of of some hole in the floor or other such opening with the rope dragging over the opening but not falling through it just yet, what good would that do you? If you were able to get the crate to other side of the opening with the rope dragging behind in the first place, then there is no need for using a rope to get across the opening. hehe :)

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Will crates of the same size have different weights possible? For example, there might be a small crate that you want to shoot a rope arrow into to climb up, normally this would be a problem, but this crate happens to be filled with many metal objects, so it's much heavier than a typical small crate. Could you climb up such a small yet heavy crate without pulling the crate down?

 

This would be fairly difficult to keep consistent on a 'game world' level.

 

Boxes/ Crates will react according to their size...not potential contents. The player needs to be able to depend on a consistent game world.

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That said, an author could make a small crate, have a different design to it (such as a large "lead billets" label on the outside that is easy for the player to see on all sides), and set it's weight to be heavy.

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way to go! the videos are amazing! i really like the fact that it's actually going a lot beyond of what's been done in the original thief games (besides graphics of course, that's d3 doing its thing). it seems so simple, (i don't mean the implementation) yet, opens a whole new range of possibilities for gameplay. puzzles, traps, ambushing guards, engines, more creative ways to break in somewhere.. i can imagine the player trying to measure with the eyes whether that crate supports his weight or not. really cool stuff!

 

i don't know if its implemented, but if not, could be an interesting idea, can you pick up objects with it? of course, objects like really small crates where the arrow could stick and its not too heavy, that would demand a 'pull back the rope' command of some sort i guess.

 

anyway, great job! i can't wait to play! :)

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What happens to the rope arrow if the falling crate shatters when it hits the ground? (...if they can shatter; crates in T2 could.)

 

I think normally a person would want to retrieve their rope arrow in any situation like this. (I can imagine a lot of situations where someone is just trying to get up into a loft and doesn't realize he's hit a crate instead of a fixture the until it falls down.)

Edited by demagogue

What do you see when you turn out the light? I can't tell you but I know that it's mine.

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