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The recipe for a good mission?


Macsen

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I assume that accounts for all custom content including new sounds, AI, weapons or whatever? If so then that's brilliant, as I hate having to overwrite stuff for the original game. I also remember that Doom 3 had a 'mods' option in the main menu where you could select stuff to use; will TDM be featuring the same option?

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In our case we're already a mod, and FM's are treated as "mods to the mod." Normally an FM contains a map, plus the option of overwriting things like the HUD to mod them. I suppose someone could make an "FM" that only mods things and doesn't include a map, meaning you could play the regularly included maps with that mod in place. I'm not sure if we could handle playing another FM/mod after loading a different FM mod... that's getting into mod to the mod to the mod territory, where I'm not sure how you would handle conflicts with multiple things trying to overwrite the same file.

 

Do you know how pk4's handle it when you load one mod/pk4 with file A, then load another one with the same file A? Does it just go by whatever's loaded first, or last?

 

You might have to inspect the contents of the mod and forbid loading two at the same time if they try to overwrite the same file. For example, if you loaded up Bob's Crazy HUD mod pk4 that overwrites the hud gui file, then tried to play Alice's Crazy Mansion FM which also contains a custom HUD.

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I think adding a section to the wiki when the time comes about how to write an appropriate readme would be really helpful. I've found this to be one of the worst aspects when using mods, is that people often given little to no thought to the readme.

 

Just like when you browse through a library, you often do judge a book initially by its cover, when you use a mod, the readme is really essential to getting an idea of what the author tried to accomplish, (un)installation instructions, etc.

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Do you know how pk4's handle it when you load one mod/pk4 with file A, then load another one with the same file A? Does it just go by whatever's loaded first, or last?
It loads them in alphabetical order, with later PK4s overriding earlier ones. Sometimes people try to exploit that by starting PK4 names with zzz (if I remember correctly the fixed declaration packs do it).
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Okay, an auto-mod installer that can handle multiple mods at once might possibly auto-check for conflicts by checking all the files in the pk4 and making sure there's no conflicts. I think something like this is something that should be worked on after we actually release the main mod though. :)

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I think something like this is something that should be worked on after we actually release the main mod though.

That's probably for the best. I imagine there won't be any problems with conflicting resources/files until there is a large proliferation of custom content and conversions made by various modders.

Edited by SplaTtzZ
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It is kind of a "bells & whistles" thing though. We could spend all our time making a beautiful system to mix and match independent mods for the mod, but that won't matter much if no one plays the mod in the first place because we neglected gameplay coding. :) It's probably not too hard, I'm just saying we should get the key points of the main mod done first.

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  • 1 month later...
I disagree almost entirely.

 

Multiple ways to enter a building/complete a mission - This I agree with.

Plenty of Sneaking - This I agree with.

 

But the other things? No. Let me tell you why :)

 

Story - A mission does not need a story, certainly not of this type. If every mission has one they'll all end up being the same. Having a goal is a different thing.

 

A sense of discovery - No. Sometimes a house should just be a house.

 

A Living City - It doesn't have to take place in a city though! And it could be a city that is asleep. It's going to be at night after all and not everywhere will be open 24 hrs.

 

Anticipation - Arguable.

 

A twist - Most certainly not. What are we? The M. Night Shyamalan of games? "Always" have a twist? What? No. Why? That just gets dull.

 

Originality - ...if you can create an entirely new faction or setting all the better... No, no no. Original yes, but new factions? Do we really want 30 different factions? I don't think so.

 

Keep it human - No, no and again no. How is this original? We should have a range of mission types.

 

Rewarding Loot - Again this is cookie cutter mission making. If I ever get this thing working and do any maps you will most certainly not have "candy" loot put around near mission objectives. It'll be realistically placed.

 

Sorry to put such a downer on your thread Mac but I think what you have suggested will end up with a set of missions that are to similar and actually lacking in originality. You can make a good mission in any way that you want.

 

Your an idiot. Thats all I can say, but your opinion sounds so dumb.

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Hmm, I agree more than SE, but not completely.

 

Maybe your list is not things that are necessary to a good mission, but things that improve a mission. For instance, I would surmise that a good story isn't required for a good mission, but surely a good story wouldn't usually hurt a mission and would almost always improve it.

 

So, is there anything on your list that I think would actually hurt a mission? I think a twist could end up hurting things, throwing the player for a too-far loop maybe. Always including some humans might restrict some otherwise very cool non-human missions. Too much originality may just get weird.

 

But overall, I think most of the list are things that help a mission. And I personally LOVE a sense of discovery, very much a high point for me.

 

It's always good to have a story to the mission, story lines to the game always make the game better, with out it the game becomes dull. Well atleast for me.

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My problem is when it becomes obvious that the mapper has placed things just to give the player a way to "pass through completely undetected." Like those alcoves conveniently placed just far enough apart that you can get from one to another before a guard comes by. Or the guard that conveniently turns his back to the important doorway for 10 seconds every 30 seconds. Etc.

 

That is so true.

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Your an idiot. Thats all I can say, but your opinion sounds so dumb.

We generally prefer criticism to be constructive.

My games | Public Service Announcement: TDM is not set in the Thief universe. The city in which it takes place is not the City from Thief. The player character is not called Garrett. Any person who contradicts these facts will be subjected to disapproving stares.
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And also that you don't quote thirty lines and when you only plan to type one of your own.

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Don't listen to komag, he's a mormon. If you killed and ate his wife, he's still shake your hand and invite you in for coffee.

The rest of us are all the sort of depraved heathens who have no mercy for div kids, so don't push it.

Civillisation will not attain perfection until the last stone, from the last church, falls on the last priest.

- Emil Zola

 

character models site

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Don't listen to komag, he's a mormon. If you killed and ate his wife, he's still shake your hand and invite you in for coffee.

The rest of us are all the sort of depraved heathens who have no mercy for div kids, so don't push it.

 

No mercy? How could you show any lack of mercy over the net anyway? And telling me not to push what?

Personaly I don't give a damn who the rest of the people on this forum are.

 

But anyways... things that make me enjoy a thief map much is how cozy it looks :)

I love seeing cozy fire places in a map, just makes the map seem 10 times better.

Well thats my opinion and it's shit. :)

 

P.S. I don't want any critizim towards me, just stick to the thread.

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So what the hell is going on in here and guys I think we need to have an age limit for membership - no 12 year old idiots please.

 

Well, we'll have to base our judgment from person to person...not age alone. There are easily as many articulate young members out there as there are idiots. There's no age limit on idiocy, right oDDity?

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Under a year I would agree with, but two year olds can definitely be idiots. One of my cousins is a great example of an idiot toddler who grew into a fine idiot adult. Personalities form pretty early.

 

It is interesting how idiocy/stupidity is the last disability that gets no recognition or sympathy at all.

If you have any sort of diagnosable mental illness or physical disability or are missing one of your primary senses, you get all the sympathy and help in the world, but if you're born with a brain that is not as capable as other people - not quite mongoloid, like a sub 40 IQ, but just stupid, you're fucked, get no help, are resigned to a life of pointless menial labour since you're not fit for anything else, and get scorned openly by people like you.

Civillisation will not attain perfection until the last stone, from the last church, falls on the last priest.

- Emil Zola

 

character models site

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It is interesting how idiocy/stupidity is the last disability that gets no recognition or sympathy at all.

If you have any sort of diagnosable mental illness or physical disability or are missing one of your primary senses, you get all the sympathy and help in the world, but if you're born with a brain that is not as capable as other people - not quite mongoloid, like a sub 40 IQ, but just stupid, you're fucked, get no help, are resigned to a life of pointless menial labour since you're not fit for anything else, and get scorned openly by people like you.

 

Yes.

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Unfortunately, it's all relative. There are many people in the world who have done things that are of great benefit to mankind, and could equally scorn you for having done nothing worthwhile (either because you're not capable, or can't be bothered)

Stupid people are innocent. Intelligent people who don't use it for the greater good could be said to be the idiots.

Civillisation will not attain perfection until the last stone, from the last church, falls on the last priest.

- Emil Zola

 

character models site

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