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I don't think we've discussed it; nobody thought of it before. I have made an internal note so it doesn't get forgotten entirely, but it completely depends on whether someone gets around to doing it. So no guarantees. :)

My games | Public Service Announcement: TDM is not set in the Thief universe. The city in which it takes place is not the City from Thief. The player character is not called Garrett. Any person who contradicts these facts will be subjected to disapproving stares.
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I was going to write you a script for it, but aparently Doom 3 changed the way it deals with bindings and scripts compared to Quake 3. In quake you could create a toggle button or a momentary button out of everything, which was really nice. For instance you hold down a button and q3 switches to the rocketlauncher and shoots and when you release the button it switches back to the last weapon and shoots again. Everything was possible and I guess that's why they disabled it (because of the multiplayer experience).

 

You could create your own aliases and if you prefixed it with +, the specified alias was executed as long as you pressed the according button. If you also created an alias with the same name, but with the prefix -, you could even specify the cmds, that were executed when the button was released. Creating a toggle button of an actually momentary feature works in a similar fashion. You create two aliases, one linking to +creep and one to -creep and a third one to introduce the toggling process. As an example:

set creepon "+creep; set creeptgl vstr creepoff"
set creepoff "-creep; set creeptgl vstr creepon"
set creeptgl "vstr creepon"
bind [key] vstr creeptgl

That "vstr" thing is neccessary for executing aliases. It's a shame they removed all this. All "Keycommands" are now prefixed with an underscore and can't even be executed from the console. At least I didn't find a way to do so...

 

By the way, I just found the leantoggle cvar. Works nicely. But you got a typo in there. It says "pm_lean_togggle". :)

Edited by STiFU
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Hey, I just bought Doom 3 from Steam and played the mod. I'm very impressed.

 

Initially, I found it too bright, so I turned down the gamma and now it looks perfect (this is probably already in the works, but an adjustment screen similar to what Call of Cthulhu has would be a nice addition. example: This text in this box should be somewhat visible, and the text in this other box should not be visible at all. I imagine you could also form a sort of startup interface that "tricks" the user into adjusting their brightness settings). As all have said, the manteling, lightgem, and rope arrows are magnificent.

 

Most important, though, is that the game assets bring back the look, sound, and atmosphere of Thief so very perfectly (You've also done quite well in removing "the 'Doom 3' from Doom 3," which is a thing many modifications have trouble with. It was a short teaser, but I can see great things coming out of this once the AI, animations, and various other things are improved or added in.

 

One "bug" I seem to have noticed (which you are all probably already aware of) is that the sound triggered by a physics-object colliding with a particular surface seems to be delayed by a noticeable amount.

 

I will be back for more comments or suggestions later on.

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Working example script for a nightvision: ;)

set gammatgl1 "r_gamma 1; set gammatgl vstr gammatgl2"
set gammatgl2 "r_gamma 2; set gammatgl vstr gammatgl1"
set gammatgl "vstr gammatgl1"
bind g "vstr gammatgl"

 

The last engine that used the alias-command for creating aliases was Half-life 1, but since Q3 the set-command is used. Now we only need to know how to "press" (and hold) certain keys via a script and you can have your creep-run-toggle, but I think it's impossible. I had a look at all available cmds in Doom 3 yesterday, but none seems to be of any use in this context.

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Just wanted to add my two cents, along with all the others that have enjoyed the demo.

 

I had to re-install Doom 3 - I had removed it after getting partway through ROE, and giving up.

 

It was worth the effort! I've been a huge fan of the Thief series, and enjoyed this little taste very much.

 

I only wish that development on this project continues, and that the community will use it

to create a lot of interesting missions to work through.

 

Excellent work!

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Always nice to read good feedback like that. I think you'll be quite happy in (hopefully) less than a year when there is a main release with a few good large missions

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I can´t play it, :( i download the torrent installed the Doom3 patch in the correct path version 1.3.1.1304 as i saw in the console, unpacked the mod to the game directory and copied the devil.dll to the windows/system32 replacing the one that was already there. Made the shortcut and started the mod, no errors, and i see the menu (very cool by the way), started the game see the bar filling in and them i start near a wood door that is behind me and below a arch, i can move the mouse and look around but anytime a click to walk the sound goes crazy the computer freezes and i need to restart it. I tried to times and the same thing happened.

 

My PC

 

AMD64 x2 4200+

ATI x1900 xt

2GB RAM

SoundB 4

WXP 32bits

 

 

I hope you guy's find the time to reply to me. I can't seam to be able to play this game because it crashs my PC, but i play any other tech3 game including, doom3, prey, Quake4 and the ET-QuakeWars demo with no problem. So it most be something with the Beta code, what is strange is why it only happens when i click to walk, i could stay one hour moving my mouse and looking to anywhere, but walking kills the game and my PC :? .

 

 

It seams i'm not the only one a guy from the DM forum also have the same problem.

 

Quote:

Arg, damn all you people who's games are working, im crashing horrably!

The game loads up perfectly fine and i can look around, fire arrows, swing my sword,e ect but the moment i take a step forward i hear the clicking of my heels and the game either crashes and tells me there has been a serious VPU crash or freezes my computer and emits a awful screech from my headphones untill i restart. I own a legal copy of doom 3 and my system far surpasses the minimum specs.

Any ideas

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hi taffers

i played thief's den and i'm amazed

i discovered your mod being developing some year ago and i've been checking it's progress since

 

some notes:

i had problem start game in any oher resolution than 1024x768...guess it's drivers issue

but i have most recent ones for my GF8800GTS...

i was even unable to run Doom3 under my XP, game allways freezes at loading screen

so i installed Vista and make it run... works ok bu t only with that resolution... any other res

make screen flickers with no image at all... incompatibility issue, i know. (i installed vista only for DarkMod... just as i switched to XP years ago just for play T:DS :-)) and, of course, got my D3 copy only for DM... Garret's world got me,though)

as for locpicking stuff, Splinter cell double agent got good one IMHO, but here it will be more realistic to do somewhat with mouse...but no exact idea how:-)

 

btw, i was hoping for much more enhanced graphics, all that d3 speculars and bump mapping... nevermind, i understand it's a WIP. And of course, i was hoping to see some architecture that makes me 'wow', not only square rooms- i mean, seems to me like 'thief 1 with d3 shadows' graphics so i'm looking forward for v1.0 'real' maps:-)

 

anyway, DM is the most impressive project i know about so i'm hoping to help in any means

i can't do any coding 'cause my last program was written in basic for ZXspectrum:-)

but what i can do:

 

1. maybe some texture shots - i've got nice ancient castles around here... shots of broken walls, stone textures and stuff... if you can find any use for it

2.i can work as character voice actor- got 'above average' mic and i'm skilled in Sound Forge

3.i'm musician too and i've done some dark ambient music by myself so if you can use some music i can make some

4.i can use d3 console and can do beta testing at least

 

i know it's not much but i'll be pleased to help with DM if you need it.

 

keep up good work, taffers.

Edited by taffer486
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If you're willing to help or contribute, please drop New Horizon a PM and let him know about your offer. I'm sure we can use your help in the fx/music department. :)

 

As for Thief's Den, I can only repeat what has been said all along: it's a little alpha tech demo, a by-product of Fidcal's excellent A-Z beginner's tutorial. Actually it was never meant to see the light of day as a mission, so maybe that explains a few things.

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I finally got to play the alpha on another PC. The overall ambience of the game is impressive, and I love the new mantling - it is perfectly fluid and smooth, just like a master thief should do it. Unfortunately, I seem to have bad luck with the technical side: at home, the game just produced a runtime error (everything was patched and correctly installed, the video card's drivers refreshed, etc.); at my brother's, it ran well, but the shadows were so dark that anything in them was completely invisible. I can hardly believe it was intentional. :( Maybe it is the LCD screen?

 

Anyway, hope the final release will have fewer troubles. This glimpse shows a lot of promise already.

Come the time of peril, did the ground gape, and did the dead rest unquiet 'gainst us. Our bands of iron and hammers of stone prevailed not, and some did doubt the Builder's plan. But the seals held strong, and the few did triumph, and the doubters were lain into the foundations of the new sanctum. -- Collected letters of the Smith-in-Exile, Civitas Approved

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  • 1 month later...

Well I finally got the time to go pick up a copy of D3 on steam (once again it worked fine, thos D3 hates 16:10) I'll post a follow up later but I'm pretty close to the common consensus here:

 

The Good:

-Rope Arrows

-The "feel"

-The in game UI

-The speed of the PC (yes I liked it, lrn 2 run)

-The Menu UI (LOVED THIS, left it runing while I cooked I loved it so much)

 

The Promising:

-Mantleing seems a bit iffy right now but it shows alot of promise, I like the 2 button mantleing.... ALOT, tho i've seen some unreasonably high mantleing manuvers :-)

-The trash items and such, the interaction is great, some minor issues setting objects down tho as others have pointed out.

-The Look of NPC's - very good models, mediocre animation still

 

The Bad:

-Some texturing resolution mismatches, made me think of TDS more that TDM :-P.

-Default Gamma.

-AI (just hide in the attic, they can't climb ladders!)

-the "flatness" of the ambient lighting.

I'm in yur forumz,

Makin' them frobbable.

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Glad y'all liked it, on the whole. :)

 

Establishing a good default gamma is something we worked on for quite a while. However, it turns out that it's simply impossible to pick a default that works well on every setup, so unfortunately you will need to go into the video settings and adjust the brightness/gamma sliders as appropriate for your machine. Thankfully you'll only need to do this once for each time you install TDM.

 

AI climbing ladders is something we'd like to do, but had to put off because we won't have time for it by the end of this year. In our defence, I can't think of any 3D game that has ladder-climbing AI. Certainly no 3D stealth game. :)

My games | Public Service Announcement: TDM is not set in the Thief universe. The city in which it takes place is not the City from Thief. The player character is not called Garrett. Any person who contradicts these facts will be subjected to disapproving stares.
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Yes, and gamma varies with resolution too - really hard, maybe impossible, to have the perfect default.

 

It might amuse you to know that in an early version the AI could go up the ladder! No animation of course but it was a bit of a shock when you turned round in the bedroom and the thug was there. I do have some experimental climbing up by AI in my next effort, sort of clambering up over a few things in a dark corner so the lack of good animation is not obvious. Kind of fun when you think you are safe up in the rafters.... :laugh:

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AI climbing ladders is something we'd like to do, but had to put off because we won't have time for it by the end of this year. In our defence, I can't think of any 3D game that has ladder-climbing AI. Certainly no 3D stealth game. :)

 

I'm pretty sure we also voted against doing it at this point due to the number of exploits it opened up.

 

Believe us firoso, when you're trying to recreate the Thief experience...you need to focus on 'core' functionality first and foremost.

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IIRC my days tweaking Doom 3, there was another value called lightscale that could be adjusted in a autoexec cfg file. What difference does it make to TDM when adjusting that? Is there going to be a slider for lightscale?

Loose BOWELS are the first sign of THE CHOLERA MORBUS!
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AI climbing ladders is something we'd like to do, but had to put off because we won't have time for it by the end of this year. In our defence, I can't think of any 3D game that has ladder-climbing AI. Certainly no 3D stealth game. :)

 

What about Assasin's creed :-P (tho I wouldn't call that a stealth game to be perfectly honest, I'd call it a really good platformer mixed with a really bad hitman)

 

I didn't actually think Ladders would work, but it's definately something I'd criticize a mapper for using in locations in which you are likely to be chased by guards, ESPECIALLY if you would be trapped there... Just seems like poor map design, howeve in his defense: Tech demo. *snorts* I went into this not expecting much.... I've played through the map 8 times... nuff said.

I'm in yur forumz,

Makin' them frobbable.

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I'm pretty sure we also voted against doing it at this point due to the number of exploits it opened up.

 

Yes, we did, and I'm pretty sure the reasons have been posted in the public forums more than once if someone feels inclined to do a search for them.

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Yes, we did, and I'm pretty sure the reasons have been posted in the public forums more than once if someone feels inclined to do a search for them.

 

Now I'm curious I'll have to look later. I'm against the use of ladders as a neccissary game mechanic anyhow, besides, throwing stuff works just fine, the AI just needs to throw ALOT more agressively the second you TOUCH a ladder (IMHO). same with ropes... It'd be nice if damage interrupted mantleing...

 

BTW: I thought of something that might solve some mantleing exploits: allow the player to only mantle every few seconds. long enough to prevent chain mantleing, but short enough to not seem like an arbitrary imposition, tho from what i've seen the biggest hiccup with mantleing is the rising bug.

I'm in yur forumz,

Makin' them frobbable.

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Now I'm curious I'll have to look later. I'm against the use of ladders as a neccissary game mechanic anyhow, besides, throwing stuff works just fine, the AI just needs to throw ALOT more agressively the second you TOUCH a ladder (IMHO). same with ropes... It'd be nice if damage interrupted mantleing...

 

I don't think it should be that aggressive...that's just going to be frustrating. I don't think it's wise to interupt mantling either...that's going to feel more like a bug than a feature. Our coders put a lot of work into making mantling reliable...I don't think we should reverse that.

 

BTW: I thought of something that might solve some mantleing exploits: allow the player to only mantle every few seconds. long enough to prevent chain mantleing, but short enough to not seem like an arbitrary imposition, tho from what i've seen the biggest hiccup with mantleing is the rising bug.

 

I think this is also a bad idea. The controls should be responsive. If I press the button to mantle, there shouldn't be any artificial time restrictions. There may be a delay in real life, but that's unlikely to translate as well to a game world.

 

In any case...we're not in a position right now to start thinking about adding new features. We're essentially in 'core feature' lockdown and have to get the core of Thief gameplay finished and perfected.

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I don't think it should be that aggressive...that's just going to be frustrating. I don't think it's wise to interupt mantling either...that's going to feel more like a bug than a feature. Our coders put a lot of work into making mantling reliable...I don't think we should reverse that.

if a falling effect were well implemented, I could see this working out, however I suppose the frustration and functionality argument holds alot of water here.

 

I think this is also a bad idea. The controls should be responsive. If I press the button to mantle, there shouldn't be any artificial time restrictions. There may be a delay in real life, but that's unlikely to translate as well to a game world.

I meant it should feel unintrusive, but implementing such a game factor properly, this could definately cause issues. Either way tho, my only remaining real concern is the rising bug, but i'm sure you already have ideas on the back burner.

I'm in yur forumz,

Makin' them frobbable.

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Here is was:

 

REASONS TO IMPLEMENT LADDER CLIMBING BY AI

 

1. It forces players to suspend their disbelief when guards do not climb ladders (ie, realism).

 

2. Ladders can be exploited as an easy getaway, since the guards cannot follow.

 

3. Ladders can be exploited as a 'safe zone' since guards cannot follow (solved by missile AI, so this is no longer an issue).

 

These are the only reasons I can see for making AI climb ladders, to increase immersion and limit exploitation. But if we implement them in a way that decreases immersion and creates new things for players to exploit, then we haven't really gained anything.

 

These are the issues that need to be resolved (without creating new exploits or immersion issues)

 

 

ISSUES TO RESOLVE

 

1. Attacking guards on ladders exploitation. While the AI is on a ladder, he is virtually helpless. He cannot dodge or parry. A player can exploit this by shooting arrows at an AI while it is climbing, or by getting a free hit or two with a sword or blackjack while the AI is getting on/off the ladder.

 

2. Blocking the ladder exploitation. The AI cannot pass a character on a ladder. If the player stops, what does the AI do? Attacking on ladders creates a whole new subset of combat rules and animations, creating their own issues. It is also possible for a player to block a guard who is trying to get off the top or bottom of a ladder by standing in front of it. The guard is still climbing, so if it cannot attack, what does it do? The player, no longer on the ladder, is of course free to attack.

 

3. What about ladders that do not have neat on/off points? I am imagining ladders like those near the Horn of Quintus, or ladders that end several feet above the ground, or ladders that face the wall, or ladders where you can get on and off in the middle. There are many types of ladders against the wall, where the player has to climb to the top, and then basically turn around and jump to get to the next floor. Each case like this would need a separate animation from the standard 'get on/off ladder'. I don't know how much separate Ai coding would be necessary to keep guards from falling OFF the ladder when they tried to do this.

 

 

These are three of the major issues I see revolving around ladder climbing. In my view, any solution that strains immersion (like guards that can't be hurt on ladders, or go incorporeal, or suddenly get way faster than the player without cause) means we are not gaining anything. And we shouldn't do something like this (that will take significant work) if we aren't really making a big improvement to the game.

 

So, can we solve these issues without resorting to solutions that strain immersion or create new exploits?

 

I've been wracking my brain and can't come up with anything, other than perhaps doing what they did for the wall-climbing imps in D3...allow ladder climbing AI to be scripted, for instances where the Thief can see them but is too far away to interact with them. Essentially creating the illusion that they *can* climb ladders, but just choose not to do so most of the time. Of course, this only addresses Reason #1, not #2. It's obviously far from a perfect solution.

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